Dr. Dolescum

[¡Punk!]

You know, as I write this, I am kinda on benefits in two different countries and have also dodged tax in two different countries in the last few weeks. There are no things to be proud of nor are they anything to be ashamed of. The money that "scum" like me costs the government is the equivalent to having a pish in Loch Lomond. In fact it's worse than that because I go swimming in Loch Lomond sometimes and, deep down, I'm a very selfish man and don't want to swim in your pish.

So while we spend £1billion a year on the illegal war in Iraq, the "energy industry" goes out of it's way to take turns raising prices while you lot fork out for their over priced black oil AND the war which was started so we can get more of it. We have billionaires, millionaires and "British" companies that have so many offshore accounts and accountants scouring the world for loopholes in tax law so that even someone who's spent most their adult life watching...

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[endless psych]

Originally Posted by Semprini

It's mostly true, though. Big corporations DO cost the system more than your bog-standard dolescum, they just have lawyers to enable them to do it marginally less illegally.

If anyone on the dole could afford such lawyers they could probably legally stay on the broo indefinatly.

Figures for your perusal:-

Of the £13bn paid out in income support each year, the DWP said it loses 6.7 per cent - £900m - due to fraud and mistakes.

Fraud by dole-cheats costs £564m of the £900m total loss, yet currently the DWP only prosecutes 11,400 of the 150,000 known deception cases.

14% of the population (or there abouts) are on the dole. Thats around 8508673 odd folk. So out of that around 1% (just 1% of the total number of claimants, its less then a 1/4 of 1% of the British population as a whole) are committing benefit fraud. I'm fairly sure more then 1% of businesses dodge taxes wherever they can - I'd be suprised if all of them didn't to be honest.

Almost as much money could be recovered by tightening up tax laws and improving the infrastructue (databases and the like) in the revenue. In fact tightening up corporate tax laws would mean we would be able to (more*) afford dole fraud.

Benefit fraud is wrong, but in all honesty it doesn't deserve the amount of emotive "get a job", "decent hardworking folks" esque bile vomited everytime the subject is mentioned.

[endless psych]

Just wanted to add this wee stat (as it relates to an issue which I get bilious (in a simliar manner to everyone else about dole cheats I suppose) about:- MP's will get a lot more from their expenses (£118,000 p.a.) then the average dole cheat will (£3760 p.a.) both of which come from the taxpayers pocket.)

Originally Posted by endless psych

Just wanted to add this wee stat (as it relates to an issue which I get bilious (in a simliar manner to everyone else about dole cheats I suppose) about:- MP's will get a lot more from their expenses (£118,000 p.a.) then the average dole cheat will (£3760 p.a.) both of which come from the taxpayers pocket.)

Two (three, four?) wrongs don't make a right, though. I can't get my head around justifying behaviour by claiming someone else's actions are worse than your own.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by Vonnie

Two (three, four?) wrongs don't make a right, though. I can't get my head around justifying behaviour by claiming someone else's actions are worse than your own.

I did specifically say it was wrong though didn't I.

My point is that peoples reactions to the issue are disproportionate.

[mischief]

Originally Posted by Jushin Liger

Get a job.

Originally Posted by Old Man

What Lovey said.
Omm

Originally Posted by Largest of Als

+1



Al

And again.

I hope you get caught some day, really.

[Pier Angeli]

Originally Posted by Kenny Everett

Worst article I've ever read, new Altnation low.

I agree with this.

It's clearly written to get a rise out of people rather than actually make any decent, concise points. No matter which way you dress it up with your statistics about dole cheats costing the country less than big businesses at the end of the day it's still benefit fraud, it's still illegal and I'm surprised Altnation are condoning this.

I agree with Vonnie, two wrongs don't make a right.

[Foxglove]

Out of interest, how is AltNation condoning benefit fraud?

[Addy]

Originally Posted by Vonnie

Two (three, four?) wrongs don't make a right, though. I can't get my head around justifying behaviour by claiming someone else's actions are worse than your own.

This.

Dress it up however you like, the defence of the attitudes displayed in this article still amounts to nothing more than "but proportionately it means nothing because other people do it in other, larger, capacities". That never has been never will be a moral justification in and of itself.

[endless psych]

It is however a decent line of argument to employ to point out people might be disproportionate in their condemnation which is, thus far, what has been argued.

[Pier Angeli]

Originally Posted by Foxglove

Out of interest, how is AltNation condoning benefit fraud?

Well, it's basically an article containing an idiot's guide to cheating the system in a step-by-step format, which Altnation have published, despite cheating the system being an illegal act.

If someone wrote a step-by-step article on how to build a bomb, would Altnation publish it? Doubt it.

[endless psych]

Well in fairness one article tells people potentially how to kill other people. The other how to make a little more money on the side.

Not really morally equivalent. That and I predict this article could be of some use to a few folk come the recession...

[Pier Angeli]

Originally Posted by endless psych

Well in fairness one article tells people how to kill other people. The other how to make a little more money on the side.

Not really morally equivalent. That and I predict this article could be of some use to a few folk come the recession...

My point was Altnation wouldn't publish articles containing step-by-step guides to other illegal acts (and if they did I'd be very surprised), so why allow this article?

[metallideth]

Loving how the point's flown by numerous times already and some people still don't seem to be getting it. Maybe Mick can invest some of his scammed cash into putting it in neon lights.

[Foxglove]

It is an article written in the first person about one person's experience, but an experience shared by a number of people in our society. Alternative Nation are not saying what is contained is something that should be followed and the writer ensures that it remains a personal account throughout.

I felt it was an article that should be published to allow discussion on a subject that some people don't think is an issue or a problem (for the record I don't think it is in any way right to cheat the benefits system) and to allow for free debate.

Anyone following the suggestions made in the article would have to be a fool. Anyone feeling it would be OK to do so because it is an article on Alternative Nation is an even bigger fool.

[endless psych]

It seems prudent to mention the only thing that appears to actually be illegal in the entire article is avoiding paying council tax.

Oh and housing benefit.