Dr. Dolescum

[¡Punk!]

You know, as I write this, I am kinda on benefits in two different countries and have also dodged tax in two different countries in the last few weeks. There are no things to be proud of nor are they anything to be ashamed of. The money that "scum" like me costs the government is the equivalent to having a pish in Loch Lomond. In fact it's worse than that because I go swimming in Loch Lomond sometimes and, deep down, I'm a very selfish man and don't want to swim in your pish.

So while we spend £1billion a year on the illegal war in Iraq, the "energy industry" goes out of it's way to take turns raising prices while you lot fork out for their over priced black oil AND the war which was started so we can get more of it. We have billionaires, millionaires and "British" companies that have so many offshore accounts and accountants scouring the world for loopholes in tax law so that even someone who's spent most their adult life watching...

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[Kenny Everett]

Hahahaha, superb. Just when i thought this thread was dead, another idiot pops up.

[Addy]

Would it be spoiling the mood any to reveal that Mick actually now has a job?

[MarkMono]

Originally Posted by Kenny Everett

Hahahaha, superb. Just when i thought this thread was dead, another idiot pops up.

Does Dario really seem like an idiot to you? I mean, he's being horrifically sarcastic, but idiotic just seems inaccurate.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Kenny Everett

Hahahaha, superb. Just when i thought this thread was dead, another idiot pops up.

Come off it. Just because people don't share your views as regards taxation, it doesn't make them idiots or this a bad article.

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by Addy

Would it be spoiling the mood any to reveal that Mick actually now has a job?

The end of Western civilisation is thus averted.

[djtoast]

the truth is somewhere in between. i don't think that The Leviathan is literally true but i do think i fare better under a system that's organised with protecting people based on some semi-objective stab at fairness in mind, rather than favouring those possessing the greatest degree of might and will.

i have a lot of sympathy with the anarchist position but in truth i don't think it would let people of the hook of social contribution at all; there might not be an enforced collection of wealth directly comparable with taxation, but mick would be a hell of lot less able to sponge i'll bet under any other system than the one we currently have.

so to kinda stick up for him by poking ridicule at the schmucks who pay the tax that makes his leeching possible is a little flawed maybe?

[Dario]

Originally Posted by djtoast

the truth is somewhere in between. i don't think that The Leviathan is literally true but i do think i fare better under a system that's organised with protecting people based on some semi-objective stab at fairness in mind, rather than favouring those possessing the greatest degree of might and will.

i have a lot of sympathy with the anarchist position but in truth i don't think it would let people of the hook of social contribution at all; there might not be an enforced collection of wealth directly comparable with taxation, but mick would be a hell of lot less able to sponge i'll bet under any other system than the one we currently have.

so to kinda stick up for him by poking ridicule at the schmucks who pay the tax that makes his leeching possible is a little flawed maybe?

All human societies thus far have been sustained by social contributions in one form or another, what with humans being fundamentally social animals; it just hasn't always been through taxation as you've mentioned.
The ridicule revolves more around the fact that some posters here seem to be under the delusion that being obedient taxpayers somehow means that they can assume a pompous, holier-than-thou stance with those that aren't, as if they paid tax out of deep, heartfelt, personal kindness, rather than due to the fact that it's what's asked of them. Essentially, as if the whole system of taxation was something they chose to take upon themselves as if it were a crown of thorns for them to bear, when as a matter of fact, they're simply acting in accordance with the conditions that are imposed upon them. It's not some great remarkable feat that justifies the ludicrous levels of self-righteousness on display here.

So, Mick dislikes the rules of engagement to the extent where he's willing to commit what are pretty negligible acts of benefit fraud. So what? How many of the users here have personally felt the 'hard-hitting' effects of 'spongers' severely damaging their own lives, I wonder? I'm willing to bet a grand total of zero. How many of them, on the other hand, are lamenting because they're just plain bitter about the fact that they have to work all day and pay their taxes, whilst someone else, (admittedly, by exploiting the holes in the system) has a way of not doing so? There's a strange undertone running throughout previous comments which lies somewhere pettiness and envy, frankly. Quite pathetic, really.

[djtoast]

that's certainly not true across the board: i don't resent working at all, i love it. i look forward to going to work, i enjoy being at work, and i love being able to buy expensive pianos and drum kits because i go to work.

and mick's lifestyle doesn't affect me much (well... let's not get sidetracked here...).

but it is by some measure harmful, so while i'm not gonna lose sleep over it, if asked or if there's a thread on here i think condemnation is more appropriate than support. *shrug*

[Dario]

Originally Posted by djtoast

that's certainly not true across the board: i don't resent working at all, i love it. i look forward to going to work, i enjoy being at work, and i love being able to buy expensive pianos and drum kits because i go to work.

and mick's lifestyle doesn't affect me much (well... let's not get sidetracked here...).

but it is by some measure harmful, so while i'm not gonna lose sleep over it, if asked or if there's a thread on here i think condemnation is more appropriate than support. *shrug*

Well, I am assuming that the most indignant responses aren't from those in their ideal careers; mainly because I find it hard to see why anyone in that position would make quite such a vociferous song and dance about this.
Also keeping in mind that when you say 'by some measure', it's not a vastly significant measure. Maybe if huge swathes of people started all doing it simultaneously, you'd have a pretty severe problem on your hands, but it doesn't seem very likely. I doubt there's any great number of people who would consider watching GM:TV in their dressing gown every morning, eating leftover pizza and worrying about what fictitious tale to tell the JobCentre as an enticing prospect.

[djtoast]

well it couldn't by definition ever be a majority i guess!

[Tacky]

I saw this on the telly and it reminded me of this thread.

Who'd a thought that Wham - of all pop bands - were singing about how cool it is to be on the dole?!?!?

YouTube - Wham! - Wham! Rap

[djtoast]

hahahahahahahaha, i love that song.

wonder how much george michael paid in tax on the royalties from it!?

[¡Punk!]

Well I waited until this moment for my retort. I signed off today.

As for the people telling me to get a job, etc. I feel the need to point out I had spent ages trying to find work and even went abroad to do so which is probably more than most of you have done to find work. Furthermore I've currently taken a job that requires me to walk around Glasgow City Centre for five hours a night waiting to get home. So that answers the lazy and workshy parts of the arguments dished toward me. I doubt highly anyone's went through as much as I have to get and keep jobs compared to what I've done in this year. But I digress.

I never once in that article tried to defend my actions. I gave my reasons for doing them but left it up to yourselves to decide if what I was doing was wrong or not. However the pointing out of the money lost to big business and their tax scams was not one of the reasons. That was to highlight the hypocrosy of the media in demonising people who are signing on. People who sign on are mostly working class and is yet another example of us council estate dwelling, lager drinking, mayfair smoking motherfuckers being blamed for the "state of the country" by people who haven't a clue what life on the bread line's like.

The other hypocrites this was aimed it are reading it now. No-one reading this has not commited a crime that affected the state. Mines just has a social stigma attatched that yours does not because of the aforementioned media witch hunt of the lower classes. So, once again, take a good fucking look at yourselves before flinging yer shite. People in glass houses and all that.

Look at the first paragraph of that article. It compares my "crime" to pissing in Loch Lomond then goes on to say I wouldn't want to swim in Loch Lomond if you'd done a piss in it. Clearly tongue in cheek but with the obvious acknowledgement of my selfishness in my past actions.

Finally the article very clearly points out the fact that it's past actions. "Get a job"? Read the fucking article. Furthermore it states that it was self realisation that brought about this change. Any change without this epiphany is no change at all. If we are forced to change then we've been dehumanized (have you people not read A Clockwork Orange?) and the change is not real. So, once again, yer sly wee digs are as wasted and pointless as they would have been five years ago when I was doing this.

Enjoy the view from your high horses you pig ignorant mother fuckers.

[Witch]

Originally Posted by ¡Punk!

Well I waited until this moment for my retort. I signed off today.

As for the people telling me to get a job, etc. I feel the need to point out I had spent ages trying to find work and even went abroad to do so which is probably more than most of you have done to find work. Furthermore I've currently taken a job that requires me to walk around Glasgow City Centre for five hours a night waiting to get home. So that answers the lazy and workshy parts of the arguments dished toward me. I doubt highly anyone's went through as much as I have to get and keep jobs compared to what I've done in this year. But I digress.

I never once in that article tried to defend my actions. I gave my reasons for doing them but left it up to yourselves to decide if what I was doing was wrong or not. However the pointing out of the money lost to big business and their tax scams was not one of the reasons. That was to highlight the hypocrosy of the media in demonising people who are signing on. People who sign on are mostly working class and is yet another example of us council estate dwelling, lager drinking, mayfair smoking motherfuckers being blamed for the "state of the country" by people who haven't a clue what life on the bread line's like.

The other hypocrites this was aimed it are reading it now. No-one reading this has not commited a crime that affected the state. Mines just has a social stigma attatched that yours does not because of the aforementioned media witch hunt of the lower classes. So, once again, take a good fucking look at yourselves before flinging yer shite. People in glass houses and all that.

Look at the first paragraph of that article. It compares my "crime" to pissing in Loch Lomond then goes on to say I wouldn't want to swim in Loch Lomond if you'd done a piss in it. Clearly tongue in cheek but with the obvious acknowledgement of my selfishness in my past actions.

Finally the article very clearly points out the fact that it's past actions. "Get a job"? Read the fucking article. Furthermore it states that it was self realisation that brought about this change. Any change without this epiphany is no change at all. If we are forced to change then we've been dehumanized (have you people not read A Clockwork Orange?) and the change is not real. So, once again, yer sly wee digs are as wasted and pointless as they would have been five years ago when I was doing this.

Enjoy the view from your high horses you pig ignorant mother fuckers.

it is a social stigma Mick, thats the problem with benefit fraud, its for the majority a huge naughty thing to do and illegal to boot. I agree that until you've lived on the bread line, like a fair few of the "cooncil" estates in Glasgow then you can't really comment.

In Drumchapel the level of benefit fraud was really quite high and every 2nd/3rd person was commiting it, it was rare to not know someone who wasnt (In my case my family were). Until benefits are brought in line with decent cost of living, benefit fraud will always be rife.

Currently the school clothing grand is about £75 (approx) and personally i find this really insulting, what can you do with £75 when you have a kid to fully uniform its an appalling state of affairs. Also free school meals in my area are for those on benefits, when i applied i was working, earning a low wage and therefore being topped up by tax credits, because i got working tax credit, i was therefore not entitled to have free school means. Its utterly pish that you're penalised for earning a low wage by the system.

[The_Beer_Baron]

Good lord.

This place makes me want to hand in my human race membership card.