Column: Has alternative culture killed romance?

[JennyPiccolo]

I apologise in advance for my Carrie Bradshaw-esque endless rhetoric, but in a subculture where bisexuality, promiscuity, and open relationships are not unusual, where does it leave the soft-hearted young fools like me?

I'm sick of only consummating a relationship after fourteen pints of diesel, or lying alone between bouts of intercourse while the eager young man fucks off for a joint or a game on the Playstation, or worse, to write on the forum. I'm sick of chat-up lines like 'I'd cheat on my girlfriend for you' or 'It's five to three, if you were gonna pull someone better, you would have by now'. Have we always been cold, hard people, or do we just treat each other badly because that's the way we're always treated, just because we're different?

To look at, I'm hardly a beacon of alternative culture, but it's the only 'scene' if you will, where I've been able to feel comfortable. As an essentially weird person, I only ever felt I fit in...

Click here to read the entire review

[Shawsy]

i never thought i'd see the day but here goes:

I agree with Mr Monolith

[faerie_child]

tbh, ive found that most of the alt guys i know are hopeless, incurable romantics.

rich does wee romantic things for me (eg cooking dinner for me when i get home from work) and i do romantic things for him too. in fact, a mate of mine showed up at my house today with a bunch of flowers for me for no reason.

[undecided cat]

Thought(anger) provoking article. Would you like some salt for that chip on yer shoulder? Okay - sounds like you've gone out with some right arseholes - but that's your own fault and hopefully what goes around comes around for them y'know? If you look at it differently - there are no "scenes", just a group of people either bitching or looking at each others clothes. Plus, you're very wrong about the punk movement - it had nothing to do with people being areholes to each other, it was an explosion of energy and attitude, pretty hard for you to comment on as I assume you never lived during it? If everyone's just being themselves and respecting each other then I'm happy in any group's company, be they 'neds' or 'grungers' or whatever, i'm usually just happy someone's talking to me!!!! Ta for the article and all the best for the future dance music can't be the way - its all about the rock!!!

Originally Posted by JennyPiccolo

I apologise in advance for my Carrie Bradshaw-esque endless rhetoric, but in a subculture where bisexuality, promiscuity, and open relationships are not unusual, where does it leave the soft-hearted young fools like me?

I'm sick of only consummating a relationship after fourteen pints of diesel, or lying alone between bouts of intercourse while the eager young man fucks off for a joint or a game on the Playstation, or worse, to write on the forum. I'm sick of chat-up lines like 'I'd cheat on my girlfriend for you' or 'It's five to three, if you were gonna pull someone better, you would have by now'. Have we always been cold, hard people, or do we just treat each other badly because that's the way we're always treated, just because we're different?

To look at, I'm hardly a beacon of alternative culture, but it's the only 'scene' if you will, where I've been able to feel comfortable. As an essentially weird person, I only ever felt I fit in surroundings where eccentricities are lauded as individualities, making you intellectual and attractive. But do I really want to appear attractive to a collective that invented PVC hot-pants? Back-piercings? And men that are 'alternative' simply because they're funny-looking and arrogant? The politics behind the punk movement were people fighting for their right to act like complete arseholes to one another. The music that I enjoy was an entirely seperate entity.

With an identity so misconstrued that many young people hide behind as an excuse to hate 'neds', 'jocks' or whatever localised popular scene they aren't part of, it's no real wonder that relationships within this particular subculture are so fucked up. As a scene so fundamentally political, do we find it difficult to relate on a human level?

Is it time, Alt nation, for us to spread our wings, join hands and look to the social horizon? Dance music isn't that bad. And maybe some of the guys in those clubs will buy me flowers.

[KrisMas]

Originally Posted by Vonnie

It would be nice sometimes to be romanced with the whole flowers & chocolates thing, but surely as modern women we need to accept that works both ways?

It's a good point true enough though, and I completely agree with your point about joining the alternative set because it celebrates individuality - that's exactly how I feel too. I don't think the blame for the death of romance should solely be laid at the door of the alternative scene though

I really liked reading the article. Doesn't matter where you live or what what gender you are, sometimes dating can feel that way. Its a horrible adventure that you will miss when married. How sad is that?

Vonnie: How do you romance a man?
Buy him a GTO instead of flowers? Show up naked?

[Elite]

i read this article about a year ago on a flyer i got in a pub and found it at the time to be oh so true of many people i have known when i was younger.

Personally i dont see myself being 'alternative' at all and anyone in this country that thinks they are, are kidding themselves.

The 'alternative culture' as you call it these days is populated by poseurs and these folk are generally wanks so what do you expect?

Broaden your horizons you dont need to go out with, date, see or whatever, folk that you feel move in the same social circles as you. In fact it might even be better if you dont.

[Erstwhile]

This article gives me a case of the lolz. There is the assumption that alternative culture is a recent phenomenon. The nomenclature is fairly recent. I don't think that it would be too hasty to say that many historical cultures have had subcultures that challenged (and maybe not always consciously) the conventions of the larger culture. Christianized Rome still could not eliminate the pagan rituals and beliefs among the lower classes that once characterized the larger Roman culture. Additionally, during the early modern period in Europe, subcultures arose to test and legitimize forms of knowledge which could not or would not be sanctioned by the church or by the schools. In this case the subculture challenged the larger cultural apparatuses that adjudicated knowledge claims with its own methods and techniques. That we now refer to those subcultures as communities of "scientists" is a recent nomenclatural event. And it is about as informative as referring to the 18th century as the "Enlightenment": a period in which even the belief in the boundlessness of human reason still was not considered at odds with the irrational practices of slavery and the subjugation of women.

With that said, I am curious about this notion of the "romantic". Does this refer to a set of practices that are class specific? It would probably cost the poor man a week's pay to send his woman a dozen roses. Is "romantic" culturally specific? The Maori tribesman probably has a different idea about wining and dining his woman. In fact their culture might not have an equivalent practice. Isn't "romantic" perhaps gender/heterosexually specific? In each of the cases that I mentioned, the notion of the romantic assumes that the male/female connection is the only legitimate sexual relation; further, each case also involves the male expending his resources on the woman (and not vice versa).

I think that we perhaps should pause a little when recalling the "old days of romance" and allowing nostalgia to color our observations of human relations and human history.