Oi

[evillin-bo]

I'm not an expert on Agnostic front. The reason I knew that the pledge to the flag wans't a joke is that they used to start their gigs off with it. Picture them and their jock audience standing with their hands on their hearts pledging away like a school assembly.
The lyrics you posted don't convince me that they don't suffer from nauseating nationalism. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I read them like a muddle of various sentiments covering
-black Americans keep fighting pointless race wars only harming themselves and not learning from history
-America is run by corporations
-neither of them have the constitution in mind, which is fundamentally wonderful
-America would be great if we all lived by the constitution.

That to me is the foundation of fascism.
I'm not saying AF are fascists, but that the king of ideology I detect in the lyrics you posted remind me of something

[sinister]

Haha, this "AF are a racist/fascist band" stuff is getting old. It stems from the fact that racist skins liked their music and attended their shows in the 80's... but obviously that doesn't make them a racist/fascist band.

They even have a FAQ about this shit on their website:

"Is Agnostic Front a racist band?
We support UNITY! We despise ignorance and hatred within our scene. The only people we should be at war with is those who oppress us, not with each other."

I posted those lyrics 'cause they're from the opening track on the album "Liberty and Justice for...", that song has the intro with the school kids reading the pledge of allegiance so I thought that's what you were talking about. I've been into them for almost 20 years and never heard that they played that intro at gigs (where did you hear that BTW?), but even if they did it would be for the same reason as it's on the album... to mock the "liberty and justice for all" part of the pledge.

Anyways, I've seen them 10 times and have never seen or heard any "nauseating nationalism", in fact between songs at one show I saw some real fascists (the "Zeig heil", swastika wearing kind) get dragged into the middle of the pit, bruised and bleeding, to be ridiculed... believe me it was made quite clear that they weren't welcome.

[metallideth]

I wouldn't necessarily call AF's politics fascist or nationalist, but they certainly are a bit confusing. Public Assistance hardly does them any favours, nor does the fact that they still play it live.

[evillin-bo]

why were fascists into them in the 80's?

[sinister]

Why not? A lot of hardcore bands like AF, Sheer Terror etc. had problems with nazi skins at their shows... sometimes the bands would end up fighting the audience and the gig would end without the bands even playing.

[1 for sorrow]

not just hardcore bands, social distortion used to get called nigger lovers and the like by the skins at their shows.

makes you wounder why they went to the show in the first place?

[evillin-bo]

on their 1988 live lp they lead the audience into a pledge of allegiance.
I'm sure they want to distance themselves from this no-brain crap now, it's done them no favours. Everyone is entitled to change their views. But Sinister, don't make apologies for AF's openly courting skinhead mentality in the past. Boneheads don't randomly attach their loyalties to any old band, and they still love AF. You'll find AF merchandise on right wing sites, they feel old AF represents their views. The second AF lp is the main culprit it seems

[sinister]

Get a grip! So they led a pledge of allegiance as an intro to the song which has the school kids saying it on the album (like I said, mocking the "liberty and justice for all" part), big fuckin' deal. If you think that makes them right wing radicals you need to get out more.

Why not give equal emphasis to the anti-fascist song "fascist attitudes" on their Victim in Pain album from '84... maybe 'cause it doesn't fit in with your black + white view so neatly?

I'm making apologies for nothing, if you want to attack bands for being nationalist/fascist or whatever then at least pick your target with a bit more intelligence... there's 101 genuinely fascist bands out there on labels like Panzerfaust and Resistance Records, who are infinitely more deserving of your attention and criticism.

And skinhead = bonehead, hahahaha, who's being prejudiced now?

[evillin-bo]

now now, temper

[evillin-bo]

-I did not say they were rightwing radicals, I did not say they were fascists. Read the post properly before you fly off the handle.

-I get out plenty, thanks

-I was not posting because I wanted to rant about fascist bands on various lables, as far as I was aware this was about AF and why the attract a nationalist or right wing following.

-skinhead, bonehead, now you're splitting hairs, hehe

[Nick UF]

Warlord, you are a total twat... firstly Oi! as it stands now has nothing to do with black metal... listening to Agnostic Front & Exploited songs from 5 years ago isnt going to help your confused little mind - from Bathorys website even the stuff that Quorthorn calls 'oi-punk' is bands like GBH, Disorder, Anti-Nowhere League and The Exploited who were all just early 80s UK punk bands. Only the Exploited had a release on an Oi! album and they werent typical of the scene.

Secondly it really pisses me off when sad little goths like you flirt with fascist imagery and listen to dodgy crap in secret feeling naughty - 'ooh i have mates into skrewdriver' - then your mates are twats too and the fact you arent asking them about Oi suggests they're more into the controversy of being racist twats than knowing anything about the music scene they unfortunately came from.

You see boneheads with those sorts of runes as tattoos, and we immediately know where they stand and why they wear them. They're not the first... heres your avatar in use in the 1940s:


Look familiar? Seems people think if you have long hair then you can get away with it which is bollocks, people into this NSBM shit are going to find out the hard way it isn't just a role-playing game... its always skinheads who get the bad press and guilt by association (look at the other posts here) but i have yet to see pro-active anti-racists in the Black Metal scene. You'll probably argue its just a 'rune of protection' well good cos you might need it. Also if i didn't dislike you enough already i see you posted elsewhere asking to buy Coldplay tickets.... were they an influence on early black metal too?

Davie, shut it, your band was a promising oi band til you started prancing about wearing make-up! SHAME ON YOU GOTH BOY.

Sinister knows what he's talking about, well done that chap. BTW how good is the Blood For Blood cover of 'Never 'ad Nothing'?!

evillin-bo you obviously know f.a. about skinheads otherwise you wouldn't be talking out your backside in the way you are doing - its not splitting hairs.

oh well at least you pissed me off enough to register on alternative nation again...

[evillin-bo]

Nick, would you wear an Agnostic Front patch/badge on your bomber jacket? or would you worry that ignorant fools like me would think you were a nazi skin?

[Charlie Parker]

I'm a nazi and I've never liked punk. I like Cliff Richard and ZZ Top.

[McLeary]

One of the most nonsensical threads in recent history.


I love the idea of some wee black metal daftie forcing himself into listening to Oi punk "because Bathory said so" though. It speaks volumes.


On an on-topic note, I saw the Last Resort at Furyfest a few weeks back, and they were utter pish.

[Nick UF]

I wouldnt have a problem with wearing an AF badge at all. It comes with the territory that some people are gonna think your a nazi but i believe our tradition is worth saving. The best was a carribean looking girl working in the Brunswick Cellars when there was about 10 skinheads in on a sunday listening to ska... she wanted to know if 'Skinheads Against Racial Predjudice is meant to be ironic, cos I don't find it very funny...' she thought we just dress up like 'nazis' for a laugh once a week. once we showed her the 'Skinhead Reggae' trojan box set and so on she was a lot more relaxed...

Some people don't wear SHARP badges even though they are anti-racist, its a personal choice and some feel its an apology to the public for dressing like a skinhead. No-one I know is 'scared' of people think, end of the day everyone who knows us knows that we are not into that, and people who want to judge a book by its cover can fuck off. Interestingly, living in an asian area like Govanhill, i dont get any strange looks or comments off asians, but a fair amount of white people make assumptions. I think cos in Glasgow even the older generation of asians would be more used to getting racist abuse from ordinary neds than from boneheads.

Have a read of this: http://www.skinheadnation.co.uk/glasgowskinheads.htm

Warlord, changing your avatar to a Thors Hammer is like changing a BNP badge for a NF one. Your twat status is safe. Look at any white power merch site and its full of them, as you should know.

McLeary, you are right, Last Resort are embarrassing now - Roi Pearce with his string vest, beer belly and long 'Michael Bolton' receding hair singing about being a skinhead - from Morecambe to Berlin the crowd spontaneously burst into 'oi oi skinhead, get yer hair cut' when he walked out on stage...