Is religion a virulent disease poisoning the minds of the youth of today?

[LesMTS]

The more I think about it, the more I think ID would be a useful tool for putting the differences between scientific fact and scientific theory into perspective.

Yeah, you're probably right. Although there isn't really any such thing as a scientific "fact", there are scientific theories which have an overwhelming might of evidence behind them.
It'd be useful for teaching the difference between scientific reasoning and "sciencey sounding" non-scientific reasoning. But that just brings it back to what my stance has been all along, i.e. that they should teach philosophy of science in schools before they start teaching "science" as it stands.

[endless psych]

Thinking is LOGIC. Thinking is reason and deduction based on FACTS. Deciding to believe something no matter what the actual facts are is the absence of thought and should be discouraged.

Thinking doesn't have to be rational. It just has to be able to be rationalisted post hoc.

[MarkMono]

No, no, no, no, no. NO.

Teaching people to "believe what they want to believe" is NOT teaching them to think. It's teaching them NOT to think.

Thinking is LOGIC. Thinking is reason and deduction based on FACTS. Deciding to believe something no matter what the actual facts are is the absence of thought and should be discouraged.

That actually sounds pretty fascist to me. I believe quite strongly in peoples right to believe in whatever they want to.

Otherwise you're just teaching people that their beliefs are wrong. I don't think I'd ever have that sort of conviction in my own beliefs, which are mutable at best.

Yeah, you're probably right. Although there isn't really any such thing as a scientific "fact", there are scientific theories which have an overwhelming might of evidence behind them.
It'd be useful for teaching the difference between scientific reasoning and "sciencey sounding" non-scientific reasoning. But that just brings it back to what my stance has been all along, i.e. that they should teach philosophy of science in schools before they start teaching "science" as it stands.

Agreed. But as it stands we have schools that don't teach punctuation, so that may be a while off.

[endless psych]

I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong

.

[Potatojunkie]

To my surprise I'm now two for two.

If you're talking about "a couple of classes", then fair play. It's not what anyone else is talking about, though.

[MarkMono]

Touchy, its very obvious from my posts that thats what I've been talking about from the start.

[MarkMono]

.

Amen.

[Deadboy]

That actually sounds pretty fascist to me. I believe quite strongly in peoples right to believe in whatever they want to.

Otherwise you're just teaching people that their beliefs are wrong. I don't think I'd ever have that sort of conviction in my own beliefs, which are mutable at best.

Hey, I'm not arguing against people's right to believe in what they want. But are you really suggesting that illogical thought should be encouraged? Isn't it better to teach kids to think rationally, and then make their decisions on what to believe based on that?

Remember that logical thought doesn't exclude the possibility of God and religion at all.

[MarkMono]

I think its better to present them with all the options, give context on them, and let them make their own choices.

That sounds, to me, like teaching them how to think. Your suggestion sounds a little too close to telling them what to think.


Mind you, I think that logical thought does exclude god and religion, but I know this is just my opinion and shouldn't be enforced on anyone else.

[Potatojunkie]

Oops. Didn't mean in this thread so much as, well, elsewhere.

[MarkMono]

Apology accepted, we shall quaff vodka and laugh on this.

[PrincessGarnet]

I just think isn't it time we got over religion and stopped living in this dangerous delusion - the more I think about the different religions the more I just find it so laughable that people buy into this, i guess it's understandable since they promise life everlasting and I would rather believe that, than believe I am going to end up as dust.

But all the same I think it can be quite dangerous to have these views; obviously the average religious person isn't going to be a fundamentalist and do anything harmful to others but they legitimatise that you should believe things on faith without evidence which I think it wrong and ignorant.

I also don't understand how people can just pick and choose things from the bible/koran etc, surely that's just taking the piss? I think if people seriously think about it religion is a joke that people take seriously - but maybe that's my biased opinion.

[Deadboy]

I think its better to present them with all the options, give context on them, and let them make their own choices.

That sounds, to me, like teaching them how to think. Your suggestion sounds a little too close to telling them what to think.

No, no, you've completely contradicted what I'm saying. My whole point is about teaching kids HOW to think (rationally and logically) and then making decisions on WHAT to think later, based on those principles. Where did you get teaching kids what to think?

I think (As in 'Its my opinion that.') that logical thought does exclude god and religion mind you, but thats just the scientist in me.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Atheism is not scientific because it states "there is no God" without proof. True scientists will always be open to the possibility of God unless it can be irrefutably proven otherwise.

[MarkMono]

I'm not answering any more of your fecking posts until you stop typing NO NO NO and WRONG WRONG WRONG in every post just because I happen to disagree with you.

Its bloody rude and just makes you look like you have no faith in your own opinions.

I just think isn't it time we got over religion and stopped living in this dangerous delusion - the more I think about the different religions the more I just find it so laughable that people buy into this, i guess it's understandable since they promise life everlasting and I would rather believe that, than believe I am going to end up as dust.

But all the same I think it can be quite dangerous to have these views; obviously the average religious person isn't going to be a fundamentalist and do anything harmful to others but they legitimatise that you should believe things on faith without evidence which I think it wrong and ignorant.

I also don't understand how people can just pick and choose things from the bible/koran etc, surely that's just taking the piss? I think if people seriously think about it religion is a joke that people take seriously - but maybe that's my biased opinion.

Yes, it is. Most of it made sense to me though.

[LesMTS]

True scientists will always be open to the possibility of God unless it can be irrefutably proven otherwise.

Depends what you mean by God, I suppose.