Mother Seeks Hysterectomy For Her Disabled Daugter

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by hotblonde

I disagree that the goal of medicine is to prevent suffering. The goal is generally to prolong life and combat disease and suffering (note that they are together and so in context aligned?).

And to line the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry.

Originally Posted by hotblonde

I think any invasive procedure, diagnostic or otherwise must be justified and unless extreme should be requested by the actual individual. Menstruation, whilst it is a nightmare and a female curse, is not the worst or most horrific human condition.

Neither is having small tits, yet we allow people to undergo an invasive procedure, under general anaesthesia, which is no frivolous thing (as I know you're aware), to prevent them feeling inadequate. In this case it's impossible for the girl to understand enough to request the operation herself. Yet the mother strongly feels, with some credibility, that the onset of menstruation will be upsetting and confusing for her.

Originally Posted by hotblonde

A hysterectomy was done in Victorian times to women who 'gave their husband's chat or talked back'. It is from the Greek 'hysteria' and so you can decide for yourself why the term was conceived.

"Hysteria" is derived from the Greek word for "womb" (hystericus or something, can't remember all my anatomy these days). The word "hysterectomy" is derived from that, not anything to do with madness.
The notion of "hysteria" as a kind of madness comes long afterwards.

[hotblonde]

Originally Posted by LesMTS

And to line the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry.


Neither is having small tits, yet we allow people to undergo an invasive procedure, under general anaesthesia, which is no frivolous thing (as I know you're aware), to prevent them feeling inadequate. In this case it's impossible for the girl to understand enough to request the operation herself. Yet the mother strongly feels, with some credibility, that the onset of menstruation will be upsetting and confusing for her.

Les, you forget the women with small tits who are so damaged, make the choice themselves. They know they're damaged, they make the call. I fail to see the credibility for having this op being offered by her mother. Can you elaborate?

Originally Posted by LesMTS

And to line the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry.


Neither is having small tits, yet we allow people to undergo an invasive procedure, under general anaesthesia, which is no frivolous thing (as I know you're aware), to prevent them feeling inadequate. In this case it's impossible for the girl to understand enough to request the operation herself. Yet the mother strongly feels, with some credibility, that the onset of menstruation will be upsetting and confusing for her.


"Hysteria" is derived from the Greek word for "womb" (hystericus or something, can't remember all my anatomy these days). The word "hysterectomy" is derived from that, not anything to do with madness.
The notion of "hysteria" as a kind of madness comes long afterwards.

If you check up on the Victorian medicine, the term hysterectomy and hysteria are from the women being 'mad' during a period of their monthly cycle, which they poached from the Greek (also who utilised the women 'mad' cycle). Victorian medicine completely and utterly took this to the fold. Women were butchered on a word from their husbands and this happened routinely. It's quite grotesque, I seriously think it's reading for all those interested.

[Foxglove]

I don't believe in unnecessary invasive surgery such as is being suggested here.

If the mother has concerns over her daughters ability to deal with menstruation, there are ways of chemically stopping menstrual cycles. Whilst it also doesn't quite sit right with me to force hormones into someone who doesn't choose to take them, I think this is the less invasive way of preventing what could possibly be a difficult natural event for this girl.

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by hotblonde

Les, you forget the women with small tits who are so damaged, make the choice themselves. They know they're damaged, they make the call. I fail to see the credibility for having this op being offered by her mother. Can you elaborate?

I'm not supporting the operation, I'm undecided. What I'm saying is that this girl cannot make the choice for herself, it's impossible for her to understand that the procedure is even possible. Someone has to be elected to make these kinds of decision on her behalf....the natural choice is the mother.

Originally Posted by hotblonde

If you check up on the Victorian medicine, the term hysterectomy and hysteria are from the women being 'mad' during a period of their monthly cycle, which they poached from the Greek (also who utilised the women 'mad' cycle). Victorian medicine completely and utterly took this to the fold. Women were butchered on a word from their husbands and this happened routinely. It's quite grotesque, I seriously think it's reading for all those interested.

Hysteria and hysterectomy are two unrelated words with a common ancestor - the Greek word for womb.
Yes, "hysteria" comes from women supposedly being "mad" during their monthly cycle but the word "hysterectomy" is absolutely nothing to do with that and comes directly from the original Greek meaning.

[Dario]

Originally Posted by hotblonde

No, it wouldn't. It's not 'medical care' as such as it's elective. The girl is not medically defined as requiring any medical attention. It would be from personal preference; as plastic surgery is, for example. Altho' in this case, it wouldn't even be personal choice, it would her mother's. Prophylactic medicine is all well and good if it will most definitely benefit the person and the community. Can this girl's mother actually do either?

Aye, I agree with most of what you're saying, 'let nature decide' was just an odd way of putting it.

See? You've confused me. I demand some sort of surgery for this.

To the point at hand, while I concede that medicine should seek to address some extent of psychological suffering, I think this should be in extreme cases and not just whenever someone faces the prospect of well, having mood swings and finding themselves confused by them.

[hotblonde]

Originally Posted by LesMTS

I'm not supporting the operation, I'm undecided. What I'm saying is that this girl cannot make the choice for herself, it's impossible for her to understand that the procedure is even possible. Someone has to be elected to make these kinds of decision on her behalf....the natural choice is the mother.

Crap. In a word. The procedure should not even be on offer for this sort of nonsense.

Originally Posted by LesMTS

Hysteria and hysterectomy are two unrelated words with a common ancestor - the Greek word for womb.
Yes, "hysteria" comes from women supposedly being "mad" during their monthly cycle but the word "hysterectomy" is absolutely nothing to do with that and comes directly from the original Greek meaning.

Ah well, medical history is wrong and you are right. Ok..

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by hotblonde

Crap. In a word. The procedure should not even be on offer for this sort of nonsense.

I think I agree, like I said I'm undecided on this specific case. But I was just saying that there are situations when someone is unable to comprehend certain things enough to make decisions about their medical treatment and in those cases we have to elect someone to make those decisions on their behalf and I would feel that the natural choice would be the mother.
On the question of whether or not the procedure should be offered in this case? I don't know, but I'm tending to side with you that it's too serious a procedure for such an ambiguous reason.

Originally Posted by hotblonde

Ah well, medical history is wrong and you are right. Ok..

No, I'm not claiming anything ludicrous like that at all. Just saying that I know for a fact that the word "hysterectomy" is nothing to do with the word "hysteria", other than sharing a common root. What you're suggesting, I think, is that hysterectomy was derived form "hysteria". It isn't.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hysterectomy

[hotblonde]

Originally Posted by LesMTS

No, I'm not claiming anything ludicrous like that at all. Just saying that I know for a fact that the word "hysterectomy" is nothing to do with the word "hysteria", other than sharing a common root. What you're suggesting, I think, is that hysterectomy was derived form "hysteria". It isn't.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hysterectomy

But it is to do with the word hysteria, it's a direct pathway. The fact that it's not a Greek word itself does not imply that it is not derived from a Greek word, as it is. So, in short I disagree.

[Foxglove]

The mother should be given the authority to make the decision if it is medically necessary and also given the all options. How does the mother know how her daughter will cope with menstruation? I appreciate she feels she is acting in her best interest, but what she is suggesting is that her child is put through an unnecessary operative procedure when there are other options - both chemicals in the form of contraception or (shock horror) seeing how her daughter copes with menstruation. Humans are amazing. She may actually cope with a menstrual cycle without issue or concern for her mental wellbeing.

[Pantgirl]

God. I'm sure if this got agreed to then it would open a floodgate for every disabled person in the country. It's a bit weird. I'm sure there are plenty of disabled girls in this country who are having periods. Why doesnt someone ask them or their families how they cope with it?

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by hotblonde

But it is to do with the word hysteria, it's a direct pathway. The fact that it's not a Greek word itself does not imply that it is not derived from a Greek word, as it is. So, in short I disagree.

"Hysterectomy" is related to "hysteria" in the same way that "salary" is related to "saline", i.e. they are nothing to do with one another but they share a common ancestor.

[hotblonde]

Originally Posted by LesMTS

"Hysterectomy" is related to "hysteria" in the same way that "salary" is related to "saline", i.e. they are nothing to do with one another but they share a common ancestor.

Les, I've already said I disagree with your take on that. In my opinion you're wrong, in your's I'm wrong...move on.

Anyway back on topic: I don't think this girl's mother has any right to make this decision for her. It's a violation of human rights and for no reason that the mother can validate.

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by hotblonde

Les, I've already said I disagree with your take on that. In my opinion you're wrong, in your's I'm wrong...move on.

NO. I WILL NOT LET IT REST.

Only joking.

I am right, though.

Originally Posted by hotblonde

Anyway back on topic: I don't think this girl's mother has any right to make this decision for her. It's a violation of human rights and for no reason that the mother can validate.

I disagree, I think it's important that in cases where someone is unable to make certain decisions that someone with that persons best interests at heart is allowed to make the decision for them.
I don't know if I agree that it should apply in this situation, but, generally, I think it's important.

I wonder if someone who found their periods very distressing and was infertile anyway (for whatever reason), but was of completely sound mind, would be allowed a hysterectomy if they asked for one?

[hotblonde]

Originally Posted by LesMTS

NO. I WILL NOT LET IT REST.

Only joking.

I am right, though.



I disagree, I think it's important that in cases where someone is unable to make certain decisions that someone with that persons best interests at heart is allowed to make the decision for them.
I don't know if I agree that it should apply in this situation, but, generally, I think it's important.

I wonder if someone who found their periods very distressing and was infertile anyway (for whatever reason), but was of completely sound mind, would be allowed a hysterectomy if they asked for one?

I didn't state that those unable to make their own decisions are fucked and so have to abide by what the lord dealt them. I am just proposing that in this instance, the mother does not have justification.

p.s I'm right!

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by hotblonde

I didn't state that those unable to make their own decisions are fucked and so have to abide by what the lord dealt them. I am just proposing that in this instance, the mother does not have justification.

Well, I might agree. Still undecided.
What if the girl enters puberty and is clearly distressed and upset by her periods? Would you allow the mother to take that decision for her under those circumstances? Is the problem that the problem is currently hypothetical?