Girl Murdered Because 'She was dressed like a goth'

[Rev Scapegoat]

So what do you think should happen to 15 year olds who kick folk in the head for a laugh?

[MarkMono]

As if you give a fuck about the victim in this case, its just an excuse for another of your vitriolic rants against anyone who disagrees with your Littlejohnesque rhetoric.

Grow some empathy.

[Rev Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by Dario

This coming from the guy who, in his second post in the thread, decided to categorise those with differring views from him as 'apologists'.

I class as apologists anyone who seeks to shift the blame for people hurting others for fun to anyone apart from the person doing the hurting.

The bottom line is, if you think it's alright to kick someone in the head for your own entertainment, then there is something wrong with you.

[hotblonde]

Not to detract from the fact the girl was killed by needless acts of violence, but was she actually killed purely because she was a goff or is that purely a media 'let's jump on it' thing? Britain's booze culture, in particular bored young people roaming the streets mangled on booze, may have more to do with it than her being a goff.

I'm not making excuses for the girl's death or rather the accused either here and I'm aware that the majority of people who drink know what they're doing, but physically, mentally and emotionally how can you really be in control when you're 15 and under the influence? To add to that mob hysteria...

[Puppy]

Originally Posted by Rev Scapegoat

Anyone old enough to be physically capable of committing a violent act should be held responsible for it. And if they are not, then their parents should be.

At risk of adding further fuel to the fire (and Steve you know I love ya) this is a risky stance to take, technically "capable" of physical violence is a very wide area. A five year old could pick up a knife and stab someone. The cognitive skills are not there to differentiate between the real consequences of their actions and what they think might happen. Physically capable of assault/violent act but not cognitively capable.

I'm not saying that the 15 year old accused in this article is guilty/not guilty/even exists, but simply qualifying responsibility based on physical ability sets our legal system back a good bit. They used to hang kids for adult crimes under the same banner many years ago under the pretext that they were physically capable.

[Rev Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by MarkMono

As if you give a fuck about the victim in this case, its just an excuse for another of your vitriolic rants against anyone who disagrees with your Littlejohnesque rhetoric.

Grow some empathy.

100% wrong.
I think it's a fucking tragedy that someone has died, and I'd think so whether it was an accident or deliberate.
I just sincerely wish something could be done to stop incidents like this happening, no matter how common or rare they actually are in non-tabloid life.

[MarkMono]

I beg to differ.

Originally Posted by MarkMono

As if you give a fuck about the victim in this case, its just an excuse for another of your vitriolic rants against anyone who disagrees with your Littlejohnesque rhetoric.

Originally Posted by Rev Scapegoat

100% wrong.

Originally Posted by Rev Scapegoats first post in this thread

The little cunt should be named, shamed, and put the fuck away for a very long time.
No excuse for that shit. None at all.

Of course, it's actually his local council that are at fault for not providing him with any non-goth-killing activities to partake in...

Feh, sickened off the internet again, I must be getting old.

[Rev Scapegoat]

Originally Posted by Puppy

At risk of adding further fuel to the fire (and Steve you know I love ya) this is a risky stance to take, technically "capable" of physical violence is a very wide area. A five year old could pick up a knife and stab someone. The cognitive skills are not there to differentiate between the real consequences of their actions and what they think might happen. Physically capable of assault/violent act but not cognitively capable.

I'm not saying that the 15 year old accused in this article is guilty/not guilty/even exists, but simply qualifying responsibility based on physical ability sets our legal system back a good bit. They used to hang kids for adult crimes under the same banner many years ago under the pretext that they were physically capable.

Fair enough, each incident should be taken individually and in context - It's the blanket "under 16s can't be named in the press" rule I disagree with.
It seems to give some of them the idea that they're untouchable, and I'm pleased whenever I see the restrictions lifted by a judge - Sadly usually because the crime was so violent he felt he had no choice.

Beg to differ if you like... I already said I withdraw my sarcy crack about lack of council facilities as an excuse for antisocial behaviour.

[Syxx]

Classic Scapegoat. Classic Mono.

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by hotblonde

Not to detract from the fact the girl was killed by needless acts of violence, but was she actually killed purely because she was a goff r is that purely a media 'let's jump on it' thing?

Aye, as far as I can tell, nobody except the media have hinted that it was because she was a goth.

*Edit: Oh, and the prosecution lawyer, it seems, but there's no evidence in the witness statements that this is the case, or at least none that's been reported so far. Seems to just be the prosecution speculating.

[MarkMono]

Originally Posted by Rev Scapegoat

Beg to differ if you like... I already said I withdraw my sarcy crack about lack of council facilities as an excuse for antisocial behaviour.

Its a start, but hopefully one day you'll work out that not every death in the world is primarily an excuse for you to take a pop at your detractors i.e. Everyone else.

[StuntGirl]

Originally Posted by Rev Scapegoat

Fair enough, each incident should be taken individually and in context - It's the blanket "under 16s can't be named in the press" rule I disagree with.
It seems to give some of them the idea that they're untouchable, and I'm pleased whenever I see the restrictions lifted by a judge - Sadly usually because the crime was so violent he felt he had no choice.

Regardless of whether or not a minority of juvenile offenders feel they are "untouchable" by not being named in the press, lifting the ban of naming minors in the press is essentially throwing children to the braying mob. Far less the fact that none of the boys have even been convicted yet. I fail to see under what circumstance at all a child should be handed to the press to be ripped apart. It completely laughs in the face of your apparent belief in rehabilitation.

[Dario]

Originally Posted by Rev Scapegoat

So what do you think should happen to 15 year olds who kick folk in the head for a laugh?

A fair trial which satisfyingly assesses the level of responsibility involved with regards to the context in which the attack took place, without having judgement impaired by rabid, tabloid-induced bullshit mob mentality sound like too much effort?
What I certainly wouldn't do would be to name and shame minors, simultaneously furthering their sense of disaffection, thus destroying any chance of gaining their cooperation in their being rehabilitated, and encouraging hysterical, Daily Mail reading vigilantes from actively persecuting them.

Originally Posted by Rev Scapegoat

I class as apologists anyone who seeks to shift the blame for people hurting others for fun to anyone apart from the person doing the hurting.

The bottom line is, if you think it's alright to kick someone in the head for your own entertainment, then there is something wrong with you.

Well, I'm not saying that there should be no accountability whatsoever- I'm simply not subscribing to your particularly bitter, belligerent brand of hysteria and early onset senility.

But, of course, since it's evident that I'm not hollering "Name and shame! Lock 'em up and throw away the key!" at the top of my voice, then that must mean that I actually condone assault, as that can be the only logical conclusion for my disagreeing with you in any way, shape or form. Damn. You've seen right through me.

[metallideth]

Originally Posted by Rev Scapegoat

So what do you think should happen to 15 year olds who kick folk in the head for a laugh?

They should have the opportunity to practice their kicking somewhere along the moral high ground?

[Dyno]

Originally Posted by Rev Scapegoat

IMHO it's a stupid one.

There lies your problem, dipshit.