Belgium sends parents to prison for refusing to vaccinate their children

**LesMTS** · 13th March 2008, 10:18am

http://www.physorg.com/news124541093.html

There's a worrying fad for anti-vaccination thinking just now, mainly based on specious evidencial claims and suspicion of the pharmaceutical industry. The most high profile example would be the MMR scandal, in which the mainstream press (particularly the Daily Mail and its ilk) jumped on a massively flawed study linking the vaccine with autism, yet were oddly silent about the enormous numbers of discreditations the study recieved. We now have the highest number of measles cases since records began, and they're still increasing year on year.

Anyway, Belgium has jailed and fined two sets of parents for five months each for refusing to give their children the polio vaccine.
This is a tough one. On one hand, the parents may be basing their decision on spurious information but, I imagine, it's only because they want the best for their children and doing nothing and risking polio probably seems more sensible than exposing them to something they feel may be dangerous.
On the other hand, a hard line has to be taken if we don't want to see the return of these horrible diseases, and the reassurances of those who work in the field do little to calm the fears of the anti-vac crowd because they immediately treat scientists with suspicion, as if they have an agenda.

Thoughts?

MarkMono · 13th March 2008, 10:21am

People should remember that scientists are just as trustworthy as any other businessmen.

¡Punk! · 13th March 2008, 10:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMTS

Thoughts?

Yeah. I don't care how weird they look. I like my pubes.

Thoughts on the case in hand... hmmm... it's a BIG jump from not getting yer kid his jabs and calling the social services. I'm against it.

bikuki · 13th March 2008, 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMono

People should remember that scientists are just as trustworthy as any other businessmen.

As proved by the blatant failure of the smallpox vaccination programme.
Ah wait...

I don't think they should have been sent to jail but I think there should be something a bit more serious than 'but we really really want you to' to deter people from declining vaccination. Vaccination is mostly about herd immunity and eradiacating (some suitable) diseases. Fortunately polio is one of the diseases than can be viably eradicated if vaccination programmes are followed, and the vaccination has been used for decades (I think) without a problem. There's no excuse for this.

¡Punk! · 13th March 2008, 10:27am

If it makes them as cool as Ian Dury more people should get polio

MarkMono · 13th March 2008, 10:27am

...other businesmen fuck up all the time.

cupotea · 13th March 2008, 10:28am

I think its nuts when parents don't vaccinate their children. I just couldn't take the risk. I think jailing them might be a step too far though, but I agree that something has to be done to make parents see that vaccinations are important.

**djtoast** · 13th March 2008, 12:43pm

Jail is a bit of a tricky one to justify.

Tarring and feathering would maybe suit the bill better. But yup, extraordinarily selfish attitude on their part, similar idea to driving a 4x4 to take your kids to school - a very problematic line of thinking. Yep it's natural to care more about your children than other people's but there are sensible and idiotic ways to achieve that.

endless psych · 13th March 2008, 3:51pm

There exists somewhere a graph relating to vaccines and other historic developments medical and otherwise (such as improved sanitation and the like) that might be interesting viewing about now.

Alas I cannae find it.

**LesMTS** · 13th March 2008, 4:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by endless psych

There exists somewhere a graph relating to vaccines and other historic developments medical and otherwise (such as improved sanitation and the like) that might be interesting viewing about now.

Alas I cannae find it.

The ones that show mortality steadily dropping over many years before vaccinations were introduced and show little difference in the rate of change in the dropping of the mortality rate after vaccinations were introduced?

Like these:

The same graphs that completely ignore morbidity rates?

bikuki · 13th March 2008, 4:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMTS

The same graphs that completely ignore morbidity rates?

That was exactly what I was thinking when I saw those graphs. Seeing as the long term effects of polio infection can be pretty drastic surely that shoud be taken into account.

It reminds me of an anecdote that a teacher once told me (I'm remembering this from YEARS ago so it might not be 100% accurate, but the message's the same):
In a war the soldiers wore cloth caps, and the number of deaths was huge. Someone had the bright idea of introducing armoured helmets, but subsequently the nuber of head injuries increased massively. What was shown was that these men who would have before died simply suffered head injuries, however if you look at the death rates or the head injury rates alone you get a rather skewed picture of the outcome of the change.

endless psych · 13th March 2008, 4:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMTS

The same graphs that completely ignore morbidity rates?

Those would probably be the ones yes. I'm sure there are ones with morbidity rates somewhere. Its pretty inconsequential anyway the issues not whether or not vaccines work its why people don't trust them and whether people should be allowed to distrust them.

Lack of understanding in lay persons of comorbidity and mortality would likely be one, decrease in deference to authority or a recation against the medicalization of health or the consumerisation of the health service could be another.

Semprini · 13th March 2008, 6:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMTS

it's only because they want the best for their children

I'm sure they do, but if what they think is best for their children is not what is best for their children, then you have to start thinking about intervention.

Far too many people break out "I am parent, therefore I know best" logic, which simply doesn't cut it.

Hammer · 13th March 2008, 7:21pm

Fair enough. I wouldn't be surprised if this served as a test case (in theory anyway) for a few other EU states.

**LesMTS** · 14th March 2008, 2:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMono

People should remember that scientists are just as trustworthy as any other businessmen.

I don't think academic scientists are as unscrupulous as the archetypical businessman, but there's a lot to be said for your point.
This article from badscience makes it well: http://www.badscience.net/?p=624#more-624