Rehabilitation

[AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS]

Originally Posted by Posh

I can't find any links because, well, I haven't looked, but I read a while back about a group of victims of violent crimes who, despite their losses, were campaigning for the abolition of the death penalty.

I read in a well known Daily Paper that in-mates in a well known Scottish Prison were campaigning for clean under wear, as apparently some of theirs had stains that didn't come out or were ripped.

Bottom line is; Fuck them.

[Kirsten]

I wish Big Roger Houchin was on the forum. He'd have a field-day on this

[Euronymous]

OK then, how can a sentence in its own right, i.e. a length of time, be 'cushy'? That makes hee haw sense

Punitive justice relates just as much, if not moreso, to how/where you spend your 'unfree' time as it does to how long that time lasts.

How does it make hee haw sense? If you commit a serous crime and are only jailed for a short amount of time then you've done the best you can do in your situation. Surely, if i was jailed for 1 year in the worst conditions that would be better (from an inmates POV) than being jailed for 20 in the worst conditions? So, 1 year would be a "cushy" sentence regardless of how bad the conditions for a serious crime that deserved longer.

Of course there is no such thing as a fair trade off in that situation, but at the end of the day the criminals get to go free at some point (and if they don't because their sentence exceeds their lifespan, whats the point ) which is something that can be changed even if the murder can't. That is the part which is unfair.

[Dario]

Originally Posted by Euronymous

How does it make hee haw sense? If you commit a serous crime and are only jailed for a short amount of time then you've done the best you can do in your situation. Surely, if i was jailed for 1 year in the worst conditions that would be better (from an inmates POV) than being jailed for 20 in the worst conditions? So, 1 year would be a "cushy" sentence regardless of how bad the conditions for a serious crime that deserved longer.

"Say, my time here in Abu Ghraib seems much better when I consider how many more years I could hypothetically spend here. Those were the cushiest electrodes I think my genitals have ever felt."

Originally Posted by Euronymous

Of course there is no such thing as a fair trade off in that situation, but at the end of the day the criminals get to go free at some point (and if they don't because their sentence exceeds their lifespan, whats the point ) which is something that can be changed even if the murder can't. That is the part which is unfair.

You're right. It's unfair for the irrational bloodthirst of the vengeful to be left unquenched after a criminal has served their time. How can those yellow-bellied leftist pansies live with themselves?

[Ghostsuit]

Originally Posted by metallideth

Three pages and no one's thought that maybe the reason the threadstarter's pissed off is because he got murdered by Varg Vikernes years ago?

Seriously though, I am very close to advocating the death penalty for anyone who genuinely believes prison is 'cushy'. Where's the evidence? It's not in the SPS reports, as far as I've been able to tell. The Howard League don't seem to have caught on to it either. Can't say I've found it in any other governmental or NGO reports at all. What the fuck does 'cushy' mean anyway, in sociological terms? I can only assume that someone's flipped their Mary-Whitehouse-o-meter into moral-indignation-overdrive, and decided that they've suddenly aquired all the answers.

Sometimes I wish I had no brains too.

Why are you making shit up? No one mentioned prison being cushy.

Originally Posted by thetruemayhem

This is why neither you, nor john carpenter, are in politics.

Nice, quote the bits before I said, I'm kind of joking...DUH! As for being in politics get a grip have you seen Bush I'm positively a left wingers compared with him .

It's pretty obvious I'm not serious about sticking people on a island, if I was I'd make it a crappy island and not a huge one anyway. Australia was a shoddy move .

All I'm saying is that sentences seem very poor IMO, 15 years for murder, one where you pose smiling beside the body then try to hide the body seems utter rediculas to me, never mind the fact he'll probably be eligible for parole much earlier. I notice neither of you commented on that part of my post, I suppose it's easy to ignore things like that.

Originally Posted by Dario

You're right. It's unfair for the irrational bloodthirst of the vengeful to be left unquenched after a criminal has served their time. How can those yellow-bellied leftist pansies live with themselves?

I'm not for the death penalty but I do think that the prisoner should repay society in someway for their crimes. There has to be a balance between the criminal and the victim and at the moment I think the balance is too heavily swayed in the criminals favour. Mind you this is just a personal observation and not backed up by years of research so I could be totally wrong.

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by Ghostsuit

All I'm saying is that sentences seem very poor IMO, 15 years for murder, one where you pose smiling beside the body then try to hide the body seems utter rediculas to me

Premeditated murder carries a 30 year minimum sentence.

[Ghostsuit]

Originally Posted by LesMTS

Premeditated murder carries a 30 year minimum sentence.

I'm guessing this wasn't premeditated, from what I remember of the article he was going to get 20 years but got 15 because he plead guilt, then again when you video yourself beside the corpse in the bath you probably don't really have another option. I really wish I could find the piece was on the front of a paper yesterday can't remember which one but sure it was a red top, which granted doesn't say much.

*edit*
Ahh heres a bit on it.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/ne...6908-20362883/

FORENSICS experts rebuilt a smashed camera phone to nail a killer ned who posed for photos next to his butchered victim.

Grinning monster Stephen Price, 19, hammed it up for the camera with the corpse of innocent Scott Burgess after stabbing the quiet young man more than EIGHTY times in his own home.

The gruesome pictures were deleted after the crime and the phone was smashed and buried.

But the images remained in the handset's memory. And technicians at Forensic Telecommunications Services, the world leaders in recovering evidence from phones, were able to piece the device back together and retrieve them.

They found photos of Price brandishing the knife and posing with 24-year-old Scott's mutilated body.

And they recovered images of the laughing killer and his accomplice, girlfriend Karen Duncan, 17, washing Scott's blood off their clothes in a bath after the motiveless, drink-fuelled attack.

Confronted with the evidence, Price pled guilty to murdering Scott in his flat in Paisley, Renfrewshire, last year.

And yesterday, he was sentenced to life with a minimum term of 15 years.

Duncan got seven years for culpable homicide.

A police source told the Record: "The technicians performed reconstructive surgery on the phone. They replaced the damaged software and rebuilt it.

"They tested it to make sure the circuitry was working then used specialist software to retrieve deleted data.

"They hit the jackpot. The pictures were extremely graphic.

"Price was basically treating the victim's body as a trophy. There was absolutely no remorse."

Forensic Telecommunications Services, a private company who provide hi-tech help for police, confirmed that they had worked on the case.

But a spokesman would only say: "We provided material which assisted the prosecution."

[Euronymous]

Premeditated murder carries a 30 year minimum sentence.

And you think thats long enough? The average human lifespan is more than double that.

"Say, my time here in Abu Ghraib seems much better when I consider how many more years I could hypothetically spend here. Those were the cushiest electrodes I think my genitals have ever felt."

Yes. And?

You're right. It's unfair for the irrational bloodthirst of the vengeful to be left unquenched after a criminal has served their time. How can those yellow-bellied leftist pansies live with themselves?

So you feel that they have repaid their debt to society? I don't think a decade or two quite clears you of taking someones life.

[Ghostsuit]

Ahh seems it's " And yesterday, he was sentenced to life with a minimum term of 15 years." still sure I read differently yesterday. I still think it's not a good enough but the judges do have restrictions on what they can and can't do.

[Euronymous]

the judges do have restrictions on what they can and can't do.

Why? Because of money. See, in the end it does come down to financial value of life.

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by Euronymous

Why? Because of money. See, in the end it does come down to financial value of life.

What? You're going to have to elaborate on your reasoning.

[Ghostsuit]

Originally Posted by Euronymous

Why? Because of money. See, in the end it does come down to financial value of life.

I think theres sentencing guidelines which the judges have to abide by not really financially but perhaps that came into it when the guidelines were set up.

[Euronymous]

Of course it comes down to money! It wont be the first time you've heard on the news that judges are to hand out alternative to jail because the prisons are too full. Why can't they build enough? Because the prison budget can't stretch even further than it already does without eating into other services.

[Dario]

Originally Posted by Euronymous

And you think thats long enough? The average human lifespan is more than double that.

What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Criminal cases should be assessed on the basis of the circumstances under which the crime took place, not what the latest statistics on the average lifespan are.

Originally Posted by Euronymous

Yes. And?

To be fair, I'm not surprised that the point of that comment was lost on you.

Originally Posted by Euronymous

So you feel that they have repaid their debt to society? I don't think a decade or two quite clears you of taking someones life.

No, you've made it pretty clear that you think that practically any sentence other than a death sentence amounts to 'letting them off'. In any case, what I said before still stands-- the length of the sentence served should be judged in proportion to what the circumstances resulting in the murder were. Simply distributing the exact same sentence to everyone because they took someone's life misses the point entirely. It ignores any other complicating factors in the case- the mindset/situation that the criminal was in at the time, and yes, their capability to reform themselves being two of those in particular.
Merely appropriating a sentence based solely on the fact that a murder took place is far too simplistic, and lacks any kind of appreciation of how problematic a situation may be, and the grey areas involved therein. It's ridiculous.

[bikuki]

I can't believe that in 58 posts in and noone's pointed out the difference between so-called 'cushy' sentences and rehabilitation. Someone could be in prison for 5 years ('cusy' by your reasoning) and not have a moment of 'rehabilitation'. Unless you're calling it 'cushy' and 'to the end of life'... Maybe I'm confused.

I'm with Les on this one - call me a bleeding heart liberal but I think more money and resources should be put into actively trying to rehabilitate offenders rather than just shoving them in an institution full of oppertunities to learn new 'skills' from their new innmate 'friends', and forgetting about them for a set length of time. Reoffending rates are so high not just because the terms are actually allowing people to get out before they're 80, but also because prison is a perfect place to make new alliances and gain skills and encouragement from exactly the wrong people. Concentrating on making prison not only somewhere you really don't want to end up, but also not a hotbed for criminal activity, is far more constructive and beneficial for society and the individual than just shooting them or locking them up until they're dead.