Rehabilitation

[Euronymous]

I read the majority of the thread about the goth getting kicked to death by the 15 year old, and saw much talk of "rehabilitation" .

What are your views on this? All we seem to see nowadays is cushy sentences handed out for serious and violent crimes. Does a criminal deserve to be rehabilitated? Do they deserve a 2nd chance when their victims often cannot?

And what of the term diminished responsibility? If you kill someone intentionally when under the influence of something should your sentence be reduced?

I am curious.

[LesMTS]

It's not a question of a criminal "deserving" to be rehabilitated. It's a question of rehabilitation being the ideal outcome for all concerned. We gain a potentially productive member of society, while getting rid of the requirement to contain and sustain the criminal at considerable cost.

[Euronymous]

Based on that, surely shooting them would be the most productive outcome? Its far cheaper than housing them for any amount of time, and removes all risk of them re-offending? Im not saying thats my view, but just against the "for all concerned" ideology.

[Puppy]

oh. Oh dear.

I'm just going to be watching this from afar. And mosty laughing.

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by Euronymous

Based on that, surely shooting them would be the most productive outcome? Its far cheaper than housing them for any amount of time, and removes all risk of them re-offending? Im not saying thats my view, but just against the "for all concerned" ideology.

I'm including the criminal in the "for all concerned" group.
Apart from the myriad other reasons that capital punishment is stupid, primitive idea, what's the point in wasting two lives if we can save one?

[Puppy]

I would just shoot everyone and avoid offending in the first place.

[Euronymous]

Does the criminal deserve to be saved?

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by Euronymous

Does the criminal deserve to be saved?

What kind of horrible society would it be that thought the preferable option was to actively not try to get the best out of someone?
So, yes. Everyone deserves reassessment, everyone can change. Perfectly mentally healthy, stable people don't generally just go out and commit violent crimes. You'll often find these people have had one or more severe handicaps in their life. More often than not the stories of violent crimes are pretty tragic on both sides of the coin.

What would be the motivation for the alternative? Sneering, vengeful satisfaction? Fairly emotionally retarded, I'd say.

[Euronymous]

More often than not the stories of violent crimes are pretty tragic on both sides of the coin.

Im sure that is true, but what about the people that have had just as tragic circumstances and have not gone out and commited horrible crimes? What little thing is the difference between them? Criminals make that choice, they may have been victims but that is no excuse for their actions.

In theory what your saying is true, but in practice it doesn't work. The re-offending rates are massive, and the cushy sentences handed out don't deter crime. I'm not saying that execution is the answer, but the prisons aren't rehabilitating the vast majority of violent criminals. And i would hazard a guess that the majority don't ever manage in their lifetimes to contribute ( at least financially) what they have taken out of the system.

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by Euronymous

Im sure that is true, but what about the people that have had just as tragic circumstances and have not gone out and commited horrible crimes? What little thing is the difference between them? Criminals make that choice, they may have been victims but that is no excuse for their actions.

In theory what your saying is true, but in practice it doesn't work. The re-offending rates are massive, and the cushy sentences handed out don't deter crime. I'm not saying that execution is the answer, but the prisons aren't rehabilitating the vast majority of violent criminals. And i would hazard a guess that the majority don't ever manage in their lifetimes to contribute ( at least financially) what they have taken out of the system.

So what you're saying here is that the system is failing to rehabilitate criminals, which may be the case, but it's largely irrelevant to the question you asked which was basically "should we bother striving for rehabilitation?". To which I would emphatically answer "yes".

In response to your first question: different people cope with things and respond to environments in different ways. If there's a chance to help someone rather than to destroy them, shouldn't we go for the former the option? What purpose does destroying the person serve (be that execution, or a more subtle form of destruction) other than to satisfy some primitive need for vengeance.
I'm not saying every single person should be handed a second chance automatically but, if they've shown signs of remorse and rehabilitation, what would be the purpose of preventing them from contributing in whatever way they can, no matter what the size of that contribution.

[Euronymous]

Yea sorry that is two different points. I just dont believe that we should help someone back into society when they have acted to destroy a part of it, their circumstances not being an excuse. There are exceptions of course, but overall, they made their bed so then can sleep in it.

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by Euronymous

Yea sorry that is two different points. I just dont believe that we should help someone back into society when they have acted to destroy a part of it, their circumstances not being an excuse. There are exceptions of course, but overall, they made their bed so then can sleep in it.

Have you undertaken any action in the past which you look back on with shame, embarrassment or regret because your world view and the criteria by which you judge your actions has changed since that time?

[Euronymous]

Of course, but i've never punched someone unless in defence, raped anyone, attacked anyone or any serious or even moderate crime. There are some things which are unforgiveable, some things that remorse and sorrow quite simply don't cut it with.

[karbon14]

are you scapegoat in disguise?

[Posh]

Urgh.