[Politics] Gordon Brown & Labour: Your Opinion?

[Stew]

Brown is flailing around somewhat, but averting the tax revolt isn't going to do him particular damage. The problem, again, is that the Conservatives have no real opposition to what he's doing, weren't prepared to say that they'd reintroduce the 10p rate, but are still trying to push the idea that Brown is a terrible leader for changing his mind on the issue.

Labour and the Conservatives are now so busy fighting for the same middle-ground in which no voters actually sit but is least offensive to all the rest, that virtually every political argument of the last 12 months has either involved arguments about petty shit (i.e. expenses) or whatever ridiculous bile Dave Cameron noticed was headlining newspapers that week (i.e. the Lisbon Treaty). I would be somewhat less inclined to sit here every week and rail on things that are wrong with the Tories and with Tory voters if they actually bothered to put out some kind of overarching statement of policy and follow it in a reasonable way. Of course, they're too busy trying to be all things to all people.

As such, I wouldn't pay quite as much heed to opinion polls. See how Boris Johnson's polls are going down the more people actually read his opinions and stop seeing him as just an anti-Ken vote. The Tories are supposed to have a lead now. Post-1997, people forgot that mid-term polls are never favourable to the incumbent party. If the Tories end up in the same place as they did for the last two elections, hung up on some bizarrely trivial issue (GYPSIES!) and getting ripped to shreds by the media for it, people will turn around and vote for the party they actually think best equipped to run services in this country. Which won't be them. And, maybe, the Lib Dems will get another 10 seats. Which would put them in power in about 2075. Something to look forward to, I guess.

[supernothing]

The sooner the toerags get in, the sooner we can get out of get out of the union. Every cloud annawrat.

[sjonit]

keep the union!

[supernothing]

end the occupation!

[Hammer]

Aye. I was reading the reports about Cameron attacking Brown over the tax rise the other day and all Cameron was coming out with was empty words. No promises, no viable alternatives, just personal attacks.

I think that's really Cameron's forte - and why he was so successful against Blair. They ended up turning PM's Question Times into a media circus where both leaders coming off looking good without having really said anything.
Brown on the other hand doesn't have the charisma or talent that Blair had and can't work in the same way that Blair did. The Tories and the media haven't realised this yet though and for some reason expect Brown to act in the same way that Blair did. The result is Brown comes across as a lot more of a traditional politician trapped in Blair's world of spin and hype and Cameron looks like a substanceless tit.

At the moment there really isn't a viable third way though. The Lib Dems aren't doing any better leadershipwise then they were under Ming (who at least was able to put on a dammed good show in Parliament). The current leader just seems bland and without any really notable policies.
I'd guess that if there was an election in the next six months, the Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid, UKIP and the Greens would all see increases in support from various sections in society. It would probably translate into more seats for the Lib Dems and the two Nationalist parties.

As far as Scotland goes, Brown does have more a problem here given that there is much more choice then in England. On the other hand he's safe in the knowledge that the SNP does have the problems of a minority government. Support for independence always rises when Westminister is unpopular.

I wouldn't say I support Brown. Certainly wouldn't vote for him, but there are worse people we could be stuck with.

[Rosco]

The Tories getting in would be the final nail in the Union's coffin. So probably the only good reason to vote for Tories. EVER.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Aye. I was reading the reports about Cameron attacking Brown over the tax rise the other day and all Cameron was coming out with was empty words. No promises, no viable alternatives, just personal attacks.

Anyone who votes for the Conservatives on the expectation of them being left-wing deserves everything they get. Absolutely, initially, Cameron realised that the Conservatives were fundamentally unelectable for as long as they held policies that their actual members might support. Which he responded to by suggesting such things as that maybe the environment should actually be considered a priority or that youth crime might not be solely the result of the abolition of hanging in the 1960s. And, of course, was mocked for holding these views by rank-and-file Tories.

Which means that the Conservatives are now trying to play both sides off against each other. Which works, right up until you have an election, and I can only assume that Cameron is either playing that he'll have a big enough advantage going in that he can put out a very centerist platform and then hope that the traditional vote comes along, or that he's still planning to do what the last three leaders did and run on traditional Toryisms plus a ridiculous populist front.

Really, though, you still have a Tory party that wouldn't reintroduce the 10p tax bracket, opposed the decriminalization of cannabis, opposed the extension of licensing hours, opposed relaxation of the gambling laws, proposes to abolish ID cards and then spend the billions saved on building prisons to keep non-violent offenders inside for another 14 days, opposes the Lisbon Treaty and would deliberately derail the entire future of Europe for political expediency, and would generally seek to run the country in the interests of themselves and their friends. It's the same Conservative Party it's always been.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by Stew

Anyone who votes for the Conservatives on the expectation of them being left-wing deserves everything they get.

Same goes for labour.