BNP gains in London

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by metallideth

The removal from the political mainstream of dialogue on class issues probably has a lot to do with it. It's not too much of a stretch to say that the indigenous working-class are probably the most under-represented 'group' sizeable enough to force genuine political change in Britain, should they choose to do so. Obviously a lot of economic factors have contributed to the breaking of the traditional working-class, but equally I think a lot of changes have been wrought by (wilful?) ignorance from the mass media about what life might be like for someone who is neither visibly 'different' nor 'bourgoise'.

Indigenous is a bit disengenous (but thats unnessecary pedentary) its a habitual trait of the majority to think that any mention of or communication from a minority group is "bigger" then it actually is. I.E. the majority overestimates the amount of time or column inches given to minority groups. This probably also expalins why people think our "culture" is at threat.

There may well have been a removal of class issue dialouge (but these days I reckon it would equate to people wanting to pretend not to be middle class ) that had contributed to this but I thinkt he underlying error of attribution is probably more to blame for perceptions of not having a voice.

That and whenever asked what their voice would be saying they go on about not having a voice. A comparison of the amount of time devoted to "indigenous" versus "immigrant" issues would be interesting.

[metallideth]

You might be correct in stating that the majority over-estimates the amount of 'time' afforded to any given minority, but by the same token I wouldn't imagine the indigenous working-class to be representative of the majority. Like I suggested in the previous post, there's a number of reasons for that, among them:

- the removal of traditional 'working-class' jobs from Britain resulted in the removal of traditional working-class culture, something that was particularly centered on place of employment
- the reduction of secure, permanent employment in certain trades, in favour of temporary/casual employment, which has subsequently meant that a lot of people who are otherwise not working-class (read: most students) end up performing jobs that could be defined as such
- the promotion of the idea, from the Thatcher years through to the present, that we're all bourgeois now. It's wrought in everything from the idea that people on benefits are all closet work-shy cheats, to the exponential increase in property (and other 'lifestyle') TV shows

Basically, what I'm suggesting is that the working-class 'experience' in present-day Britain is a fractured one, so it'd hard to consider the working-class as a viable 'majority'. Whether the organised left have got to grips with this or not is up for debate - in my opinion, they haven't - but even if they do, they still have to dance to the tune of the mainstream media piper. People hear much more about SSP/Solidarity/Respect opinion on racism, prison reform, sexual equality etc. than they do on issues of class because that's the one subject that doesn't get discussed.

The BNP, by contrast, rarely have their opinion broadcast anywhere except when one of their mob is going on trial for being an absolute hateful clown. Their campaign, then, is going grassroots through neccesity - so while people see all the other parties offering distant comment on immigration from a fancy TV studio, they'll be aware that the BNP are out and about in their own area. This creates the facade that the BNP are somehow more 'real' or 'honest' than the other parties, or are more concerned with the so-called "big issues" as they relate to everyday life. A good standpoint from which to shore up disaffected voters.

[Rhythm Junkie]

Originally Posted by metallideth

Their campaign, then, is going grassroots through neccesity - so while people see all the other parties offering distant comment on immigration from a fancy TV studio, they'll be aware that the BNP are out and about in their own area. This creates the facade that the BNP are somehow more 'real' or 'honest' than the other parties, or are more concerned with the so-called "big issues" as they relate to everyday life. A good standpoint from which to shore up disaffected voters.

You may be onto something there. In the whole time I've been here the only political approach I've witnessed other than t.v. based monologues on congestion charges/war/terror/taxes is several BNP pamphlets posted through my door.

[AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS]

lol @ people saying its isolated.
They sell papers at Ibrox stadium every home match.

[sjonit]

too much immigration. get it sorted.

[Largest of Gregs]

Good to see!

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Rhythm Junkie

You may be onto something there. In the whole time I've been here the only political approach I've witnessed other than t.v. based monologues on congestion charges/war/terror/taxes is several BNP pamphlets posted through my door.

Yep I'm the same, only ever gotten BNP guff through my door for some reason, except the last Scottish election when it was the SNP.

Do remember however the BNP did get some coverage in the runup to this election - their London candidate guy actually had a profile on the BBC News site.

[metallideth]

Originally Posted by AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS

lol @ people saying its isolated.
They sell papers at Ibrox stadium every home match.

True, but Scotland's never had a genuine problem with the far right in the way that other European countries have had. Even when Billy Fullerton was getting medals off the government for strike-breaking in the 20s he had next to no support outside Brigton.

[Baron Samedi]

Originally Posted by AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS

lol @ people saying its isolated.
They sell papers at Ibrox stadium every home match.

They sell their shite at dozens of grounds all over the UK every week. Doesn't automatically mean they have a strong body of support in these areas.

[thetruemayhem]

Barnbrook is a shambles anyway. If anyone's read about his failures in barking and dagenham council, you'll know what I'm talking about.

t.

[AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS]

Originally Posted by Baron Samedi

They sell their shite at dozens of grounds all over the UK every week. Doesn't automatically mean they have a strong body of support in these areas.

Well, the fact the no-one is chasing them off/away from the ground tells you otherwise, mate.
They've been there for years.

Target audience and that.

[Baron Samedi]

Originally Posted by AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS

Well, the fact the no-one is chasing them off/away from the ground tells you otherwise, mate.
They've been there for years.

Target audience and that.

They're not in or on the ground and they're not doing anything illegal - what do you suggest should be done?

[AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS]

I meant fans, more than the club.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by metallideth

You might be correct in stating that the majority over-estimates the amount of 'time' afforded to any given minority, but by the same token I wouldn't imagine the indigenous working-class to be representative of the majority. Like I suggested in the previous post, there's a number of reasons for that, among them:

Well the working class is the majority (if you class the class in financial terms) and nigh on always has been. Hope lies in the proles and all that.

- the removal of traditional 'working-class' jobs from Britain resulted in the removal of traditional working-class culture, something that was particularly centered on place of employment
- the reduction of secure, permanent employment in certain trades, in favour of temporary/casual employment, which has subsequently meant that a lot of people who are otherwise not working-class (read: most students) end up performing jobs that could be defined as such
- the promotion of the idea, from the Thatcher years through to the present, that we're all bourgeois now. It's wrought in everything from the idea that people on benefits are all closet work-shy cheats, to the exponential increase in property (and other 'lifestyle') TV shows

I think you'll find that the idea of people on benefits being "work shy" cheats is more a hangover from "traditional" working class values.

Basically, what I'm suggesting is that the working-class 'experience' in present-day Britain is a fractured one, so it'd hard to consider the working-class as a viable 'majority'. Whether the organised left have got to grips with this or not is up for debate - in my opinion, they haven't - but even if they do, they still have to dance to the tune of the mainstream media piper. People hear much more about SSP/Solidarity/Respect opinion on racism, prison reform, sexual equality etc. than they do on issues of class because that's the one subject that doesn't get discussed.

Being "working class" has become a fashion statement in terms of being a viable majority - well they probably only were that when they could call general strikes.

The BNP, by contrast, rarely have their opinion broadcast anywhere except when one of their mob is going on trial for being an absolute hateful clown. Their campaign, then, is going grassroots through neccesity - so while people see all the other parties offering distant comment on immigration from a fancy TV studio, they'll be aware that the BNP are out and about in their own area. This creates the facade that the BNP are somehow more 'real' or 'honest' than the other parties, or are more concerned with the so-called "big issues" as they relate to everyday life. A good standpoint from which to shore up disaffected voters.

I agree with that biut.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Draven

This isn't isolated to London, most of Europe is swinging to the far right.

People have been saying that for at least ten years, yet we don't appear to be under the rule of Hitler Mk II yet.

A statistical blip like this isn't particularly representative when you consider the numbers involved. If the Tories actually got some reasonable policies and a decent leader, then the BNP and UKIP would probably disappear overnight.

Originally Posted by AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS

I meant fans, more than the club.

We live in a democracy (well, in theory at any rate). If people start beating up the BNP for their views that puts them down to the same level as the BNP urging people to beat up people because of their skin colour.
Not to mention creating sympathy for them when they use it in their propganda.