[News] Wendy Alexander U-Turns On Independence Referendum

[Hammer]

Turn up for the books on Sunday there. Wendy Alexander decided that actually having a referendum on Independence was a good idea and that the SNP schedule for it (which would see the vote held in 2010) is too far away.

Full story from the Herald:

Labour leader Wendy Alexander yesterday backed a referendum on Scottish independence, in a major U-turn intended to call Alex Salmond's "bluff".

Her move represents a sharp change in Labour's response to the SNP poll surge, and its timing was a surprise to colleagues.

It came as Gordon Brown yesterday sought to stabilise his battered authority at Westminster, following poor Labour results in council elections across England and Wales. In TV interviews, the Prime Minister admitted mistakes and said he understood people's concerns about rising food and petrol prices: "I feel the hurt they feel," he said. He hinted the planned fuel tax rise this autumn will be shelved.

Ms Alexander's abrupt shift from opposing to supporting a referendum follows what she called "tactical discussions" within the party about putting the SNP administration under pressure on its referendum proposal.

Declaring support for a poll during this parliamentary session, she drew criticism of "panic" from her unionist allies as well as Nationalists.

Having previously argued a referendum would be a distraction and that it played to the SNP's "obsession", the U-turn has been discussed with Prime Minister Gordon Brown, though not agreed with him.

An insider at Holyrood suggested the abrupt move resulted from Ms Alexander's frustration that the Prime Minister has been slow to commit himself to a strategy on responding to the SNP.

Other MSPs were not aware the U-turn was to be announced yesterday. This came in a BBC interview, after Ms Alexander accused Mr Salmond of running scared of bringing his referendum plan before parliament.

LibDems rounded on their Labour allies on the constitution, saying Ms Alexander was panicking after Thursday's bad election results south of the border, with her new position based "on tactics not principle".

Mr Salmond said that the parties were "starting to crack", warning that if unionist parties did not support a referendum, he would make it "a dominant, transcending issue in the 2011 election campaign".

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It's a good time to announce a change of decision like this, for Scottish Labour anyway. It serves to both distance them from the British Labour Party and Brown (avoiding some of the flack that they are getting in the wake of the Council Elections in England) and putting pressure on the SNP to make the referendum happen. It could also serve to give Labour a big advantage over the SNP in the next election if the Referendum shows that a majority of Scots are against independence.

[Draven]

Very finely balanced risk she's taken here. If there is a referendum and Scotland votes in favour for independence, a result of this could pretty much be the end of Labour in Scotland - the party simply could not recover from it.

It does reek somewhat of desperation to me, she's been on the backfoot since she stepped through the door, and I suppose this is her attempt to go back onto the offensive.

[Zooropa]

I think she's thinking "Do it now" before the Tories get into Westminster in two years and there will be a much louder voice for it.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by Draven

Very finely balanced risk she's taken here. If there is a referendum and Scotland votes in favour for independence, a result of this could pretty much be the end of Labour in Scotland - the party simply could not recover from it.

On the contrary I think Scottish independence would rejuvanater (sp?) the old Scottish labour guard and you'd probably have an actual socialist government in scotland.

Unionist parties would likely join into one amorphous mass.

Originally Posted by Zooropa

I think she's thinking "Do it now" before the Tories get into Westminster in two years and there will be a much louder voice for it.

Most probably aye.

[Rosco]

I think it was a bad move for her personally. She's taken a massive gamble and so far it's backfired - it just looks like a desperate move from someone out of their depth.

[XMachina]

http://www.independence1st.com/content/polls.shtml

not the most up to date opinion poll, but useful nonetheless.

There seems to be healthy support for the referendum. If such a referendum were to take place and the result came back as no, it might mean that the independence/devolution constitutional debate would blow over for a few years like it did after the 1979 poll.

[pANDAS Radio]

A reforendum would be interesting if people were reminded that an independant Scotland would be getting a lot of money via that refinery at Grangemouth, It's not as if there is another refinery doing it's job. If there was then 4x4 drivers wouldn't shake with fear at the idea of a strike.

[sjonit]

aye get it done soon so the independance bid can be crushed and we can continue on as british

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by sjonit

aye get it done soon so the independance bid can be crushed and we can continue on as british

You can't just get rid of Scottishness with a referendum. In the event of a No vote, it would most likely end up being kept in the public consciousness in the same way devolution was in the 70s and then acted on later.
Sooner or later independence is inevitable - Britain doesn't have anything like enough cohesion to remain a single entity.

[Zooropa]

Is there a set question yet that would be asked?

[sjonit]

Originally Posted by Hammer

You can't just get rid of Scottishness with a referendum. In the event of a No vote, it would most likely end up being kept in the public consciousness in the same way devolution was in the 70s and then acted on later.
Sooner or later independence is inevitable - Britain doesn't have anything like enough cohesion to remain a single entity.

I dont agree its innevitable, I believe we shall go on with the status quo.

Neither do I want to rid us of scottishness, merely the notion of independence.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Zooropa

Is there a set question yet that would be asked?

I don't think the SNP have set one yet. In the National Conversation White Paper, Salmond says he's open to a multiple option referendum giving a choice between the current settlement, increased devolution and independence.

I suspect they'd favor a simple Yes or No ballot though.

[endless psych]

While I'm looking to see if there are any questions heres a blurb from Nicola Sturgeon http://www.snp.org/node/13778

[Zooropa]

Yeah, I remember them suggesting the tiered approach, just wasn't sure if it was final.

Would anyone vote against increased devolution?
Guess it would depend what that entailed.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Zooropa

Yeah, I remember them suggesting the tiered approach, just wasn't sure if it was final.

Would anyone vote against increased devolution?
Guess it would depend what that entailed.

Don't think so. Even the Tories quite like devolution now.

It would probably annoy the English though. There is already a good bit of displeasure at the fact that Scotland, Wales and NI have their own forms of Government and England doesn't. On the other hand, I'm not sure how much of that is tabloid froth, but in the past few years there has been a trend of English nationalism replacing British nationalism in England.

Can't see Westminster giving up any more powers without a fight. It was only a few months ago that Gordon Brown was being reported as saying he wanted to take back some powers from Holyrood. Not sure how keen the English Tories are about devolution either.