[Politics] Police should give anti-social youths "a taste of their own medicine", says Home Secretary.

[Dario]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...police.ukcrime

Police should be harassing badly behaved youths by openly filming them and hounding them at home to make their lives as uncomfortable as possible, the home secretary will say today.

The crime initiative is part of a government strategy to win back voters by proposing more radical approaches to tackling deep seated problems.

In a speech in London the home secretary, Jacqui Smith, will acknowledge that the number of antisocial behaviour orders being issued is falling, but will argue that there has been a shift to the use of parental orders instead.

As part of the crackdown on bad behaviour, she will urge police forces across the country to follow the example of Essex police, who have mounted four-day "frame and shame" operations by filming and repeatedly stopping identified persistent offenders on problem estates.

The programme in Essex has been successful, even though it may raise human rights issues about such tough tactics, especially if those harassed by the police have not been found guilty of any criminal offence.

Smith will say: "There is no let-up in tackling antisocial behaviour. We know that getting in early to stop troublemakers works, but I want stronger action to deal with persistent offenders. I want police and local agencies to focus on them by giving them a taste of their own medicine: daily visits, repeated warnings and relentless filming of offenders to create an environment where there is nowhere to hide.

"There can be no excuse for inaction while people still fear for the safety of the streets and estates where they live. We will do more to protect them. We all need to sharpen our resolve to tackle both the symptoms and the causes of antisocial behaviour."

My extraordinarily profound insight into this? What a nasty, spiteful cunt.

I'm sure the continuous harassment of youths will work wonders in making them feel like valuable citizens in society. Well done.

[djtoast]

Underlining the attitude that the police are the "enemy" , genius

[Largest of Als]

Public Flogging.. it's the way forward I'm telling you....

That and National Service.




Al

[metallideth]

As part of the crackdown on bad behaviour, she will urge police forces across the country to follow the example of Essex police, who have mounted four-day "frame and shame" operations by filming and repeatedly stopping identified persistent offenders on problem estates.

"Frame and shame"? What in honest fuck?

[Rio Ohki]

Oh dear god.

[Draven]

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind.

This will achieve nothing other than further contempt for "New Labour" and divide people against the Police.

Not to mention the aforementioned civil rights issues.

[endless psych]

Their choice of words is ill considered frame and shame...

This is the sort of thing that might percievably work if communities were doing it - which would probably have the added bonus that cameras weren't needed and the hassling wouldn't need to be persistant. But its not the sort of thing the police should be doing.

I'll put this better later.

[TSR]

to be fair, she did say for repeat offenders

"a taste of their own medicine" is an horrifically bad way to promote this - her PR skills should be ashamed

"repeat offenders will be stalked by marked police officers so that they have to think before acting"
if CCTV was everywhere and it was CCTV being used instead of marked officers to track the people, would people have lesser objections?

i'm not sure my thoughts on this 1. i see both good and bad
does say they've run a successfull trial

at least they're trying and thinking. what would you do to tackle anti-social behavior?

Originally Posted by Draven

This will achieve nothing other than further contempt for "New Labour" and divide people against the Police

can people who think of the police as "cunts who get in my way & spoil my fun" really think less of police/law than they already do?

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by TSR

"repeat offenders will be stalked by marked police officers so that they have to think before acting"
if CCTV was everywhere and it was CCTV being used instead of marked officers to track the people, would people have lesser objections?

I'd have more to be entirely honest.

at least they're trying and thinking. what would you do to tackle anti-social behavior?

Encourage communities to get involved in tackling the problem rather then relying on external organisations.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by TSR

can people who think of the police as "cunts who get in my way & spoil my fun" really think less of police/law than they already do?

No, fair point, but I see this tactic as an infringement on basic civil rights and as bullying. I'm sure many more people, out width those already with contempt, would see it that way too, and make the police somewhat unpopular.

[Stew]

Uh, - how is this a taste of their own medicine? Is there a spate of teenagers following members of the Police force home, and filming while harassing them as they make a cup of tea and watch The Bill that I'm not aware of?

[Dario]

Originally Posted by TSR

to be fair, she did say for repeat offenders

"a taste of their own medicine" is an horrifically bad way to promote this - her PR skills should be ashamed

"repeat offenders will be stalked by marked police officers so that they have to think before acting"
if CCTV was everywhere and it was CCTV being used instead of marked officers to track the people, would people have lesser objections?

You're essentially advocating that 'repeat offenders' are spied on? Sure, there's nothing remotely authoritarian about that at all.

Originally Posted by TSR

at least they're trying and thinking. what would you do to tackle anti-social behavior?

Great, we should give them points for effort.

Why not try to identify and address root causes of said anti-social behaviour, rather than shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted? One of which you could say would be those in authority taking on board attitudes which effective alienate young people from the wider community at large, as this particular measure is likely to.
That's not even bringing up the fact that "anti-social behaviour" in itself is a fairly recent, and vague term which, whilst including things like aggressive behaviour and vandalism (as if they aren't covered by any other laws), seems to me to be mainly geared towards targeting those who are merely perceived to be a 'nuisance' more than anything else in specific.

[Jenpot]

Originally Posted by endless psych

I'd have more to be entirely honest.



Encourage communities to get involved in tackling the problem rather then relying on external organisations.

Yeah, I dont know about you, but when I see people I know are likely to cause trouble I cross the street, not try to tackle the problem.

Communities are scared, and rightly so. When people are being beaten to death for standing up to folks that are indulging in anti-social behaviour, I fully encourage the police to step in. Intact, id rather they go further.

On top of that, fuck their rights. Rights come with responsibilty, violate your responsibility to follow the laws of this country then you violate the rights of freedom that come with it.

[Dario]

Originally Posted by Jenpot

Yeah, I dont know about you, but when I see people I know are likely to cause trouble I cross the street, not try to tackle the problem.

Communities are scared, and rightly so. When people are being beaten to death for standing up to folks that are indulging in anti-social behaviour, I fully encourage the police to step in. Intact, id rather they go further.

On top of that, fuck their rights. Rights come with responsibilty, violate your responsibility to follow the laws of this country then you violate the rights of freedom that come with it.

So, anyone who doesn't behave accordingly automatically forfeits their civil liberties? That way totalitarianism lies.

Also, sensationalism a-go-go.

[djtoast]

Originally Posted by Jenpot

On top of that, fuck their rights. Rights come with responsibilty, violate your responsibility to follow the laws of this country then you violate the rights of freedom that come with it.

yes but there's two problems here - firstly the notion that we try to rehabilitate people, and once they've served any punishment for previous crimes they're back to "normal" again. contentious but that's how it works, and with good reason, otherwise we make people permanently criminal upon their first conviction.

secondly the idea that people are inocent until proven guilty by a court of law, not by the police... the police's job is to collect and present evidence, not to meet out justice; otherwise heinous corruption creeps in very rapidly.

we do have to tackle repeat offenders; i'd be all for giving them tags for extended periods and listing extensive no-go areas, disallowing them to meet other tagged associates, hauling them in any time they were within half a mile of a reported crime, etc etc etc... as part of their rehabilitation after a conviction.

but what's being presented here sounds far too much like turning the police into a lynch mob. not good.