[Politics] Women's Abortion Rights Scotland Protest

Mwezzi · 19th May 2008, 1:31pm

Glasgow protest, Monday 19 May
Time: Meet at 5.30pm (5.30pm-7pm)
Place: George Square, Glasgow

Edinburgh protest, Monday 19th May
Time: 6pm
Place: Bottom of the Mound

On Monday 19th May and Tuesday 20th May (today and tomorrow) Members of Parliament will be considering amendments to the Human Embryology and Fertilisation Bill, on which there will be a free vote.
These will include amendments which aim to lower the time limit for abortion to 20 weeks or, in some cases, as low as 13 weeks which has been stated as one of the uppermost goals of the anti-choice side. This vote is taking place much earlier than expected and with very little notice.
The British Medical Association, Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, British Association of Perinatal Medicine and the Royal College of Nursing are all opposed to any reduction in time limit. In the limited time available, it is vital that everyone who supports woman's rights to choose does everything they can to show their opposition to any reduction.

There is no scientific basis for this reduction - there has been no significant change in the survival rate of babies born before 24 weeks, and many of the anti-choice arguments are based on emotive grounds. Currently, the vast majority of terminations occur in the first trimester of pregnancy but the 24-week limit is there to allow women with more limited access (such as those from Ireland who come over here) or who are more vulnerable, or who for whatever reason do not discover the pregnancy until much later as well as those who experience complications and would rather not carry a dead foetus to term and experience all the trauma this often entails. In fact, there is more likely to be a psychological impact upon the woman if she is forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term than if she has a choice. As Kira Cochrane reports:

Quote:

Many of those who have late-term abortions are the most vulnerable: teenagers who didn't realise that they were pregnant until five months' gestation; women with learning disabilities; those using methadone in drug rehabilitation programmes, which puts a halt to your periods. Women like the one I read of recently, whose partner started beating her up when she became pregnant, and who feared she would never be able to escape him if she had his baby. (In more than 30% of domestic violence cases, the abuse started during pregnancy.) Women who have suffered a severely traumatic episode - the death of a partner, or a child, for instance - who fear that the stress might affect foetal development. The BPAS has just published a 28-day audit of late-term abortion requests, to be distributed to MPs. The stories include that of a woman with two small daughters from a previous marriage, who had an unplanned pregnancy with her current partner, which he urged her to continue. She then found out that he was abusing her daughters. As Ann Furedi of BPAS says, the stories "provide a really stark contrast to the abstract, philosophical and rather sterile discussion about viability and not viability. What this does is to take it woman by woman. The challenge that we're putting to MPs is to look at this and think about it - what makes you think that the lives of these women would have been better if they'd had to continue their pregnancy? We're talking about women who, by their own admission, are saying, 'I cannot cope with having this child'.

What are everyone else's thoughts on the subject?

TSR · 19th May 2008, 1:45pm

keep it as it is. if there's no actual need to change it, then allow women/couples more time

Draven · 19th May 2008, 2:05pm

I've always been very pro-choice, but last week on the news it showed you what a baby looks like in the womb at around 24 week looks like, and I have to say; fuck me. It was a baby, it had everything there, there is no way that you should be able to abort a baby at that stage of development.

It was rather distressing actually, so kind of unsure over the whole situation.

Tacky · 19th May 2008, 2:08pm

See, this starts the whole - excuse the wording of this - debate of 'when does the egg become a person?'

I mean, if i was ever in the situation, i would like to think that i had the option if it were available you know?

cupotea · 19th May 2008, 2:16pm

I think 24 weeks is far too late in a pregnancy to abort, but perhaps that is because I've experienced what pregnancy is like at 24 weeks and beyond. I can't honestly remember my feeling on the matter pre-babies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSR

keep it as it is. if there's no actual need to change it, then allow women/couples more time

24 weeks is almost 6 months pregnant, how much time do you need?

*eta* not you personally obviously, all I mean is 24 weeks is pretty far along, most couples will have known for a good few months by that point.

Wicked · 19th May 2008, 2:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cupotea

I think 24 weeks is far too late in a pregnancy to abort, but perhaps that is because I've experienced what pregnancy is like at 24 weeks and beyond. I can't honestly remember my feeling on the matter pre-babies.

24 weeks is almost 6 months pregnant, how much time do you need?

*eta* not you personally obviously, all I mean is 24 weeks is pretty far along, most couples will have known for a good few months by that point.

It can take a few months for some people to realise theyre pregnant.

cupotea · 19th May 2008, 2:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked

It can take a few months for some people to realise theyre pregnant.

yeah I realise that hence why I used 'most' rather than 'all'. I think that's fairly rare though.

Wicked · 19th May 2008, 2:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cupotea

yeah I realise that hence why I used 'most' rather than 'all'. I think that's fairly rare though.

Sorry, wasnt reading things properly

I know its rare but these people should have the option too.

Rowsbette · 19th May 2008, 2:24pm

Apparently my cousin knew someone who didn't realise she was pregnant til she had the baby. Although I'm sure that's even rarer.

Wicked · 19th May 2008, 2:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowsbette

Apparently my cousin knew someone who didn't realise she was pregnant til she had the baby. Although I'm sure that's even rarer.

Bit late to do anything then

My mum didnt know she was pregnant with me til she was four months gone. That scares me a bit that you can be that far along and not even know it

cupotea · 19th May 2008, 2:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked

Sorry, wasnt reading things properly

I know its rare but these people should have the option too.

thats cool. I agree with what you are saying in principle, of course every woman should have equal rights however a minority women go into labour at 9 months before they realise they are pregnant. should they be allowed to abort?

I don't disagree with abortion, I do believe it is every womans choice but at some point the welfare of the baby has to be considered, and I think that this is before 24 weeks of pregnancy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowsbette

Apparently my cousin knew someone who didn't realise she was pregnant til she had the baby. Although I'm sure that's even rarer.

you stole my thoughts!

.Katie. · 19th May 2008, 2:28pm

I'm all for a reduction. I've looked after loads of babies born at 24 weeks (and less) and i can't imagine how anyone could abort a baby at that stage (with the exception of women terminating pregnancies for medical reasons).

I know that a lot of hospitals refuse to perform terminations after 20 weeks ( again with the exception of medical reasons). This isn't really common knowledge but you pretty much won't get a termination for social reasons after 20 weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mwezzi

as well as those who experience complications and would rather not carry a dead foetus to term and experience all the trauma this often entails.

That wouldn't happen, she would be induced pretty soon after the diagnosis

Wicked · 19th May 2008, 2:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cupotea

thats cool. I agree with what you are saying in principle, of course every woman should have equal rights however a minority women go into labour at 9 months before they realise they are pregnant. should they be allowed to abort?

No. I wasnt suggesting that. I assume the 24 weeks thing is for a reason. I just meant I assume its there for the people that do go a bit longer than average to have the choice. Therefore I dont think it should be reduced.

cupotea · 19th May 2008, 2:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked

No. I wasnt suggesting that. I assume the 24 weeks thing is for a reason. I just meant I assume its there for the people that do go a bit longer than average to have the choice. Therefore I dont think it should be reduced.

no I know you weren't really, but at 24 weeks a baby is viable, not as viable as at 9 months but still, able to survive with help.

TSR · 19th May 2008, 2:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cupotea

24 weeks is almost 6 months pregnant, how much time do you need?

*eta* not you personally obviously, all I mean is 24 weeks is pretty far along, most couples will have known for a good few months by that point.

it'll be the rarer cases that 24 weeks help out. if there's no medical reason to change it, i don't see why some should be punished (mother/father & child) for not working out what they want sooner