Students arrested and detained for downloading 'illegal document' - Page 2

Largest of Als · 27th May 2008, 7:09pm

The other side of the argument is.. what if he HAD been a terrorist, using the course as cover, and no one had reported him...

.. you never know...

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtoast

Doesn't the fact he had to get the stuff from the US government prove that he wasn't a terrorist - if he was, he could get it from abu hamza, or whoever.

?

Ever tried to type up a document with a pair of claws.. easier just to get it from the Americans..

Al

nevali · 27th May 2008, 7:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtoast

Doesn't the fact he had to get the stuff from the US government prove that he wasn't a terrorist - if he was, he could get it from abu hamza, or whoever.

?

It doesn't prove it, because it could be rather simple cover, but the fact it would be considered perfectly normal within the context of the course they were on makes it less likely (either that, or more elaborate cover, depending on your fear factor).

This stuff wasn't illegal until recently. When it was proposed, lots of people said “here, you're basically legislating for thoughtcrime, that's a bit fucking stupid”, but it was made law anyway. Now a couple of students have been arrested for it and one deported. Unlikely to be the last.

Frankie LiDeo · 27th May 2008, 7:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtoast

Doesn't the fact he had to get the stuff from the US government prove that he wasn't a terrorist - if he was, he could get it from abu hamza, or whoever.

?

Unfamiliar with bluffery... interesting. No Petrella, Toast.

endless psych · 27th May 2008, 9:48pm

The university of Wollongong must be shitting it.

endless psych · 28th May 2008, 12:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMTS

If you're obtaining anything illegal for research purposes you need special permission, which it doesn't seem he had. So the arrest is probably legitimate.

Except he was obtaining it from a legitamate source so (more then) arguably (unless he obtained it illegally from the website - which is highly unlikely if he wanted to use it in his thesis) no harm no foul and fair to assume no permisson would be needed.

That and using something illegal for research purposes should never be an arrestable offence in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevali

This stuff wasn't illegal until recently.

In what way shape or form is it illegal?

Also was there a thread on this site about the case in Scotland where the college student was done for looking at websites? Just a random thought.

nevali · 28th May 2008, 6:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by endless psych

In what way shape or form is it illegal?

Section 57 of the Prevention of Terrorism Act prohibits dissemination and possession of terrorist-related materials in the UK.

Irfan Raja, Awaab Iqbal, Aitzaz Zafar, Usman Malik and Akbar Butt were convicted after being arrested at their halls of residence at Bradford University in March 2006. In February of this year, they were freed on appeal—the appeal largely hinging on the fact that the prosecution failed to provide any evidence of a link between the material and any sort of terrorist plot; the appeal court determined that this was necessary for a safe conviction and anything else was contrary to both the spirit and letter of the law.

Basically, it's not illegal, provided you can stay in the country long enough to get a court to agree with you, which if you're a foreign national is a touch tricky—to say the least.

**djtoast** · 28th May 2008, 11:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by endless psych

That and using something illegal for research purposes should never be an arrestable offence in the first place.

Should never be convcictable, if it's in some way illegal then police probably should stick their noses in I guess to ensure it is for research purposes.

Making it plain to everyone beforehand what you're doing I suppose would help prevent this sorta thing... But I do feel strongly that acquiring / possessing information should never be a crime in itself.

Draven · 28th May 2008, 12:07pm

At university you do require special permissions to access dubious documentation, as well as ethical clearance. As has been mentioned it seems this chap had neither, so to those who picked him up it would simply appear that he was downloading the manual for no other purpose than to read it.

Very murky to be honest, unsure how it should be taken.

nevali · 30th May 2008, 1:01pm

El Reg has an article on this now: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...nloading_book/

They reckon said materials were on the Politics Faculty's reading list, which puts a somewhat different slant on things. The part about bringing the expulsion forward is also rather disturbing, though sadly not in any way surprising.

Semprini · 30th May 2008, 5:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevali

The part about bringing the expulsion forward is also rather disturbing, though sadly not in any way surprising.

Indeed.

Anyone with half a brain (and possibly even the cabinet) can see that it's a brazen attempt to get him out of the country to reduce his chances of winning his case. What I'm left wondering is if they're just brass-necking it, or if they really do think we're that stupid.