[Politics] Junior Doctors' Free Accommodation To Be Scrapped (split from WOYM)

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by Potatojunkie

You agree with me too:

If I dressed in twigs and the like I could concievably look like a tree, doesn't make me look like one.

I was a bit forceful (ok argumentative - but not as has been suggested merely for the sake of being so) earlier on - probably because it was in W.O.Y.M rather then a seperate thread.

I'm also curious as to what you do mean by designed if not "consciously produced". Also if you mean "imply" rather than "infer". But I don't know how to ask about these things without sounding like a knob.

I probably do mean imply rather then infer, depends where I mis-typed like.

The phrase "willfully argumentative" and the bit about "picking a fight" (whatever the exact wording was) is designed to question the integrity of your opponent. The bit about it not being conciously produced was to infer that you weren't sitting there thinking "how can I make his arguement look stupid" you just used an established rhetorical technique common in debate/arguments. I.E. it came naturally rather then involving any nefarious plotting on your part.

Conciously produced was a shit awful way of putting it but the first short hand that came to mind.

[Mwezzi]

Originally Posted by Pantgirl

I wa sin the same boat re the hard course thing. I couldnt get a summer job etc as I HAD no summer due to having to do FREE EMS (Extra Mural Studies) placements at places I had to find myself. 52 weeks in total I think over 5 years and also some term weeks interspersed that owing to Hospital care and Equine rotations staring whenever. I'm also lumped with more debt as my course was 5 years as well. Im getting paid pennies (over 10k less) compared to the salaries the new grad Doctors will be getting paid, they just have to deal with it for one year and then they're fine

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have to deal with the same money problems as everyone else, but everyone else was expecting this kind of thing. With most other salary-related issues people are given fair warning especially if it's going to have a severe impact upon their finances and it's usually handled a little better.

Personally, I'm just sick of the whole 'compulsory debt' thing that all students end up with and hate it when high-up people decide to make it worse for some instead of improving the lot of others with the money they're currently wasting on other things.

[bikuki]

Jesus, I posted because I was excited about being on TV for the first time in my life - I did NOT post to start a fucking argument. This is getting turned into a 'how dare med students think they're better than other students' which is a load of bullshit. We work fucking hard and do a fucking important job - I'm not saying that to take away from anyone else, but because it's true. We have been lumped with this massive extra charge with little to no warning and are being expected to lump it, and I know alot of people who are having to either give up jobs they have dreamed of or go into severe financial difficulty. The first year out of uni is essentially a paid educational post, which can't easily be repeated so if you can't afford to go where you want to you're pretty much stuck.
All the points that needed to be made have been made - as I said I didn't want an argument and I'm going to bed. Carry on if you want but I don't care anymore.

[Mwezzi]

We just like verbally beating each other up, and it's an interesting issue. Goodnight Bikkie.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by Mwezzi

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have to deal with the same money problems as everyone else, but everyone else was expecting this kind of thing. With most other salary-related things people are given fair warning especially if it's going to have a severe impact upon their finances and it's usually handled a little better.

I'll put my hands up and say that a lot of the issue I take with this is down to the fact it affects people who are/or at least appear to be in a position of greater priviledge then others. As such it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth that they are protesting about this, I do understand why I just don't entirely think its justified in the grand scheme of things.

It would be fair to say I've probably got a chip on my shoulder about such things and might even be fair to suggest theres an element of jealousy in there as well. (Which is why I've come across as argumentative in the thread).

I agree its unfair that this is being dumped upon folks, but then again when I questioned the practice noticing the first post and reading the news reports I decided that the practice itself was unfair. Och well.

[Potatojunkie]

Originally Posted by endless psych

The phrase "willfully argumentative" and the bit about "picking a fight" (whatever the exact wording was) is designed to question the integrity of your opponent.

Or to, uh, point out that it looks like they're being wilfully argumentative. Reading so far into it is just being wilfully argumentative.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by bikuki

This is getting turned into a 'how dare med students think they're better than other students' which is a load of bullshit.

It is, thats entirely not whats happening.

Originally Posted by Potatojunkie

Or to, uh, point out that it looks like they're being wilfully argumentative. Reading so far into it is just being wilfully argumentative.

I'm my own worst enemy, also I am a white hole.

See the problem with reading/learning about rhetoric is you can't unread/unlearn it.

[Ghostsuit]

Originally Posted by bikuki

Jesus, I posted because I was excited about being on TV for the first time in my life - I did NOT post to start a fucking argument. This is getting turned into a 'how dare med students think they're better than other students' which is a load of bullshit. We work fucking hard and do a fucking important job - I'm not saying that to take away from anyone else, but because it's true. We have been lumped with this massive extra charge with little to no warning and are being expected to lump it, and I know alot of people who are having to either give up jobs they have dreamed of or go into severe financial difficulty. The first year out of uni is essentially a paid educational post, which can't easily be repeated so if you can't afford to go where you want to you're pretty much stuck.
All the points that needed to be made have been made - as I said I didn't want an argument and I'm going to bed. Carry on if you want but I don't care anymore.

Toys out the pram, sorry the discussion became more interesting that I was on TV. I'd be happy people were discussing this rather than no one caring about you.

I'm still failing to see how you will be worse off though...

Previously doctors got 5k because they HAD to stay near the hospital. So this assumed the doctor MUST in cur extra rent cost due to this factor and the 5k is compensation for this.

So now you DON'T have to live nearby you shouldn't incur this extra cost and thus not be adversely affected by not getting this 5k.

So where are you 5k down at the end of this??

No ones saying you guys won't be doing an important job but the facts are you'll be getting bloody well paid for it. You seem to be complaining about not getting extra money for an extra cost you WON'T be incurring that smacks of taking the piss to me unless I've read this wrong. If your talking about having to travel to work big deal, join everyone else in the commute to work we don't get paid for.

[Mwezzi]

Originally Posted by Ghostsuit

Toys out the pram, sorry the discussion became more interesting that I was on TV. I'd be happy people were discussing this rather than no one caring about you.

I'm still failing to see how you will be worse off though...

Previously doctors got 5k because they HAD to stay near the hospital. So this assumed the doctor MUST in cur extra rent cost due to this factor and the 5k is compensation for this.

So now you DON'T have to live nearby you shouldn't incur this extra cost and thus not be adversely affected by not getting this 5k.

So where are you 5k down at the end of this??

From what I'm guessing, instead of not paying rent for compulsory new accommodation, they're now paying for travel costs or, indeed, the rent incurred from having to live nearby due to the fact that commuting to that place in Dumfries every day on 4 hours of sleep is out of the question.

[fallen_nemesis]

Not being medically inclined I don't know all the ins and outs of this. It is shit to be pulled so suddenly though, having said it happens to all new medical students starting this year onwards would have been fairer, that way you go into first year knowing it's going to happen at the end of your course. Current students are therefore not affected.

The government seldom works like this however, and fair or not they can do whatever they like. The government tend to want solutions now, and more money yesterday. Let's be brutal, phasing it in isn't going to get such large sums of cash so quickly allowing MP's to use the money statistics in re-election campaigns is it?

The thread title suggests it's a bonus or a luxury, not a right. It seems students have taken this for granted, which you can understand when it's been the case for so long.

It's utterly shite for the students and I sympathise. it's an added stress I'm sure they could all do without, but it wasn't their right in the first place it was a luxury

[Ghostsuit]

Originally Posted by Mwezzi

From what I'm guessing, instead of not paying rent for compulsory new accommodation, they're now paying for travel costs or, indeed, the rent incurred from having to live nearby due to the fact that commuting to that place in Dumfries every day on 4 hours of sleep is out of the question.

Having read it a bit more it seems you got rent free which was where the 5k came in so I can now see why you'll be out of pocket so yes this does suck a bit in that case still least you'll get a job when you finish and start paying off your loan unlike alot of other students.

[Woolies]

I remember when students stopped getting housing benefit (ffs, near on 20 year ago), the grant money didn't increase but rent was suddenly five times as much.

It was shitty then so I guess it's just as shitty now.
One day They'll learn about scaling things down ove time or compensating during an interim rather than switching money off from one term to the next.


I still blame Maggie.

[Charlicat]

Originally Posted by Woolies

I remember when students stopped getting housing benefit (ffs, near on 20 year ago), the grant money didn't increase but rent was suddenly five times as much.

It was shitty then so I guess it's just as shitty now.
One day They'll learn about scaling things down ove time or compensating during an interim rather than switching money off from one term to the next.


I still blame Maggie.

I get rent assistance

And whats my poor, passed away cat ever done

[Woolies]

She left stole my milk.

[Charlicat]

She was lactose intolerant.

PS, I got webmessenger working at uni, and you're not online.

Why do you hate me.