[Politics] Junior Doctors' Free Accommodation To Be Scrapped (split from WOYM)

[MarkMono]

As much as I'd love to jump into this discussion, I feel that I'm too prejudiced. Doctors are more fundamentally important to society continuing to function than the majority of other professions.

Yes, even Vicky.

[endless psych]

Even podiatrists?

apologies to any foot doctors who maybe on the forum

[Vonnie]

Hmm.

I can totally see where Vicki's coming from but I have issues with the middle-class privilege expectation to be brutally honest. Yes it's bad timing that some of these poor junior doctors have bought property but will need to rent elsewhere for a year, but frankly on £32k a year you can afford it and that's without taking into account the possibility of being able to let your properties for a year if necessary. That starting salary is £5k per year more than my husband & I's joint annual income and we are both professionally qualified with a mortgage, a car and three children to support. It's also roughly double the starting salary of a qualified nurse or midwife, neither of whom would have that benefit and both do a job of equal if not higher value.

I have sympathy that it's been sprung on you all, but I'm afraid that's as far as it goes.

[nevali]

Without getting into the ins and outs of whether Junior Doctors should have previously received the benefits, because to be honest it's largely irrelevant, the point here is largely that the corrective measures are broken. There appears to be an awful lot of underestimation in this thread as to the impact of having what amounts to a major financial shift dumped on you at short notice. It doesn't really matter a whole lot what the starting salary is compared to other professions (similar or otherwise), what the working hours are, or whether renting flats out is a reasonable option (though as a side-note: landlords have quite a significant set of responsibilities, and somebody working 50+ hours a week probably isn't in a good position to take that on): the real issue is being told “oh hai, by the way, you're going to have to pay £5k more than you'd planned for”—the number of junior doctors who have that sort of money just lying around spare is going to minimal, at best.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by nevali

the real issue is being told “oh hai, by the way, you're going to have to pay £5k more than you'd planned for”—the number of junior doctors who have that sort of money just lying around spare is going to minimal, at best.

Particularly after they have paid the deposits on their flats?

Are Junior Doctors suppossed to be broke or homeowners? If someone could clarify it would be nice.

And aye both are possible - but they are starkly different kinds of broke...

[Bobzilla]

Was the allowance not there so that you could get accomodation near the hospital you'd be working in and as you no longer need to do that its not something the government can justify using public money for?

I'm sorry but there were 30% job cuts in most of the civil service last year and not everyone got a nice redundancy package. Thats a lot of people losing alot more that £5k for a house they dont need so no sympathy from here other than its a bit shit it wasn't phased but then neither were the job cuts and we're facing a lot more of them in the coming 3 years.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by nevali

Without getting into the ins and outs of whether Junior Doctors should have previously received the benefits, because to be honest it's largely irrelevant, the point here is largely that the corrective measures are broken.

No it is relevent, it would be irrelevent if junior doctors and medical students were outside hospitals protesting about the benefits not being phased out gradually.

Near as I can tell they are protesting about its withdrawal though.

<insert comparison with Maxwells widow (or was it mother) complaining the real victum of the mirror pension crisis was here.>

[Vonnie]

Originally Posted by nevali

the real issue is being told “oh hai, by the way, you're going to have to pay £5k more than you'd planned for”—the number of junior doctors who have that sort of money just lying around spare is going to minimal, at best.

Upfront? Definitely! But who pays their rent annually? £5k per annum is around £417 per month and that could almost rent a whole flat in most areas so a couple of doctors buddying up won't be £5k worse off - maybe half that. With the NHS in the state it's in, they really need to start operating like a business instead of like a charity and cuts have to come from somewhere.

It's shit, but we live within a healthcare system that allocates medication and treatment dependant on cost factors. If my local health authority can't afford to pay for herceptin treatment but can cover the accommodation costs of staff earning more than triple what I do then I think this move is more than justified - it's necessary. Unfortunately there's always going to be the group who are hit first.

[LesMTS]

I'm more or less in agreement with nevali.
Like I said earlier, it's by no means the biggest financial injustice in the UK and no-one on £32k a year is going to be living hand to mouth even if they do have to pay rent on top of a mortgage for six months, and I can see why some people who do struggle or have to count pennies would be irritated that they're complaining about it. BUT it is definitely unfair that people have made fairly large life decisions with this £5K in mind and they've had it pulled out from under them.
The £5K per junior doctor could be put to much better use in the NHS, but they've gone about this in a stupid, cackhanded manner.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by LesMTS

I'm more or less in agreement with nevali.
Like I said earlier, it's by no means the biggest financial injustice in the UK and no-one on £32k a year is going to be living hand to mouth even if they do have to pay rent on top of a mortgage for six months, and I can see why some people who do struggle or have to count pennies would be irritated that they're complaining about it. BUT it is definitely unfair that people have made fairly large life decisions with this £5K in mind and they've had it pulled out from under them.
The £5K per junior doctor could be put to much better use in the NHS, but they've gone about this in a stupid, cackhanded manner.

Come down off the fence - are the protestors justified in their complaint?

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by endless psych

Come down off the fence - are the protestors justified in their complaint?

Yeah, they're justified in their complaint. But I don't think they should kid themselves that the general public will rally to their cause.
Perhaps taking it to the streets was the wrong thing to do because even with the cuts they're going to be way more privileged than the vast majority of people who will see their protest, and as such a lot of these people are simply going to think "twats", "toys out the pram" and "suck it up", but they're definitely justified in feeling fucked over.

[Jushin Liger]

A good idea handled poorly, at least they got it half right.

[Dario]

Originally Posted by endless psych

Come down off the fence - are the protestors justified in their complaint?

Doing your bit to discourage further accusations of being 'wilfully argumentative' there, I see.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by Dario

Doing your bit to discourage further accusations of being 'wilfully argumentative' there, I see.

hehe.

Nah, doing my bit to get Les to express an actual opinion

[m0nkeymafia]

As much as £5k towards accomodation may seem to be a luxury to others, its removal is the same as any other element of a salary package being removed, whether thats a company car, a bonus or pension contributions. Its amount and purpose is irrelevant, its still something that has been taken away and as such is a reduction in the value of the overall package that they were expecting to receive.

Would you be complaining if your bonus/company car/private health/pension/whatever else you get was no longer being given to you? Especially if it was done without warning.