Endangered Animals vs Poverty

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by Zooropa

From an ecological point of view - would it not be utterly catastrophic for key species to become extinct?

Depends what you mean by "key species".
Species go extinct naturally every day.

[Zooropa]

Originally Posted by LesMTS

Depends what you mean by "key species".

I gave an example?!

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by Zooropa

I gave an example?!

Did you add that in by an edit or did I miss it?
Anyway, the extinction of the tiger won't have massive effects on ecology. Not now. The question is do we want to let tigers become extinct? Are there situations in which we can justify letting them become extinct?
What is the value of a tiger?

[Zooropa]

In currency?

[Dario]

Originally Posted by Hammer

The other market would be specialist collectors - like the numpties who go around steal rare birds eggs.

"I only ate one!"

[PrincessGarnet]

Originally Posted by LesMTS

Some incredibly poor people make livings and sustenance from endangered animals.
Should we continue to discourage this?
Are we in a privileged position in the western world where it's easy to frown on this kind of thing? If the playing field was leveled and we were struggling would we lose our "ethical" standpoint pretty quickly?

Anyway, I used to think I knew what I thought about this, but don't anymore. So, discuss, please.

Out of interest what was your view on this?


Should we continue to discourage this?

Yes, but obviously need alternatives to give them as others have mentioned. I do wonder if capitalism was allowed to work as it should with not so many barriers put up by the west what the world would be like...

Are we in a privileged position in the western world where it's easy to frown on this kind of thing? If the playing field was leveled and we were struggling would we lose our "ethical" standpoint pretty quickly?

I do think ethical stand points come with a certain standard of living, you can view it in the UK. Poorer families are more likely to buy eggs from caged hens, recycle less etc etc - although the last one could come with education and that's also important although obviously not imposing western thought on to those in third world.

[fallen_nemesis]

I used to think I knew my view on this until I watched Louis Thereux (sp) and the episode on hunting in Africa. The guy running the hunting ranch bread tigers in fairly decent conditions , but still captivity for the sole purpose of being hunted, but the poor folk in the villages got meat to eat and use the skins. The arguement also being that that was a liveliehood for the ranch owner and he maintained numbers of tigers and actually HELPED stop animals from becoming extinct as it stopped hunters from going after tigers in the wild.

There was a lot going on in the episode though and I have a lot of mixed feelings on the issue...perhaps this is due to the fact I found myself sympathising with the guy but then my moral sense kicked in and I felt guilty for it. I don't know. It deffinitely left me feeling rather unneasy and uncomfortable about the whole thing though but in a way I couldn't quite put my finger on.

Sorry, not a useful post in the slightest I know

[Campestral]

i know what you mean, the animals are kept in captivity but their species is still being kept alive. i think what it is hard to put the finger on is, is it worth being kept alive in prison or is the very fact they're being kept alive a small compensation for our guilt? in the natural order of things we are taking over the world as any animal in our situation would. just because we know what we are doing doesn't mean we are in charge of what we are doing. it might be just like life itself, something we have no control over. the irony of intelligent life is it is constantly trying to be in control of what it actually is. this is where fear comes from, the not knowing. this fear should remind us we are still animals cause all animals survive on fear. so i've maybe just done a full circle lol, what lesmts is on about, maybe it's the fear of us letting other animals be extinct that raises a deeper fear of what will elitists do to us when there are no animals left?

[pANDAS Radio]

Originally Posted by Mwezzi

The only thing that would keep these people unemployed would be snobbery or a lack of imagination from potential employers.

I think you may be missing a massive point, these are often areas where the lack of any employment opportunities has resulted in the poverty which has resulted in the decline of certain species due to someone spotting the opportunity to earn money/more people needing to do that to survive.

It's often the fact that there aren't any potential employers, not anything to do with snobbery or lack of imagination.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by Mwezzi

The only thing that would keep these people unemployed would be snobbery or a lack of imagination from potential employers

Or cheaper or better trained workforces elsewhere?
Or a workforce closer to any particular resources being used?

In the case of capitalist goings on I doubt that in any case its snobbery or lack of imagination that keeps people being unemployed. Its probably far more likely to be a case of their net worth.

[Tacky]

Im gonna play devil's advocate here, and say leave them too it - if a people tries to kill an animal that they really dont stand a chance against, win for the animal! Then again, even whales can get chibbed and they are huge beasts, and magnificent creatures.

Natural order of things - survival of the fittest eh?

....although i do wish i had the chance to see a live Dodo.

[endless psych]

As an aside:- should we start shooting, or otherwise stopping, chimps who use tools to hunt?

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by endless psych

As an aside:- should we start shooting, or otherwise stopping, chimps who use tools to hunt?

Why?

[Tacky]

No - if they get a hold of tools then old stylie star trek music / fight scene!

DUn dun, dun dun, dun, dun dun - Doooooooooooooooo

[pANDAS Radio]

Originally Posted by Tacky

if a people tries to kill an animal that they really dont stand a chance against, win for the animal!

Except that the people are killing the animals, mostly using guns. If it was a fair fight then this thread wouldn't have existed and the animals wouldn't be called endangered.