Israel enters Gaza (warning: some graphic content)

[Dec]

Can you please furnish me with this list of rules about where people are allowed to fire weapons in a time of war?

[Goth_pixie]

Originally Posted by Dec

Can you please furnish me with this list of rules about where people are allowed to fire weapons in a time of war?

Well, if, according to you, Palestine can fire weapons wherever they want and it's a time of war, then Israel can fire theirs wherever they want, so what's the big deal?

[Semprini]

Originally Posted by XMachina

YouTube - Desmond Dekker - The Isrealites

YouTube - Maxell - Cassettes - Me Ears Are Alight...

[0x21]

Originally Posted by Dec

Utter apologist bullshit. Whoever drops tha bomb is to blame for the deaths, Hamas has as much right to put their government and military offices wherever it sees fit, as it is a democratically elected government.

Hamas could put their military units somewhere that won't result in heavy civilian casualities when Israel inevitably attacks, but that doesn't get them the sympathy vote, so they won't.
I'm not convinced the civilian deaths (no matter how shite it is) can be blamed entirely on Israel when they have no option but to bomb the military units there (I don't think ignoring it is a viable option, and as has been said - no other state/country in the world would stand back and allow it), at least partial responsibilty has to lie with Hamas because they are really the only party in the conflict that could prevent it.

However, I don't think this argument is really going to get anywhere.

[Warped]

Aye its no if you keep talking pish.

[0x21]

Originally Posted by Dec

"Firing them at civilians", lol, you should write for the Daily Mail. They're firing them at Israel, a country they are effectively at war with, the fact that civilians are there is just a happy coincidence.

They aren't aiming at Israeli military targets though, so the only other targets much be civilian. If they were aiming at military only targets I may be able to bring myself to see their side of things, but they aren't.

[supernothing]

Originally Posted by Goth_pixie

"Effectively at war". They aren't actually at war.

They live in ghettos surrounded on all sides by a hostile state that holds many of its citizens prison and obviously has no qualms with breaking international law, ceasefire agreements, or imposing military rule on entire populations. It's a war,

Originally Posted by Goth_pixie

The rockets aren't being fired at government bases or military targets, there's no Robin Hood-esque romance to it. They have used weapons against a civilian population, to spread fear and intimidation, which constitutes terrorism.

THESE ROCKETS ARE SHITE, you cant target them. you put them over your shoulder and aim in the general direction of your oppressor. The Israeli occupation of palestine has been a never ending story of fear and intimidation against the civilian population: curfews; arbitrary detention and assasinations; collective punishment in the form of destruction of houses, farmland and vital utilities (power stations, etc). Is that terrorism?

It might be "cool" to love Palestine and hate the Israelis at the moment, but that doesn't change the fact that neither side is exactly innocent. Both sides have acted in ways that are deserving of criticism, but people tend to overlook the fact that the Palestinians haven't been all sweetness and light.

The thing is it is only amongt the people that the palestinians are seen in a good light, at the level of power they have hardly any representation or support. I can't think of an issue where the public and powerful viewpoints are so divergent - despite constant media coverage favouring the Israelis. I'm not even going to take you up on the laughable idea that most people have sypathy with the palestinians to be "cool".

[supernothing]

Originally Posted by 0x21

Hamas could put their military units somewhere that won't result in heavy civilian casualities when Israel inevitably attacks, but that doesn't get them the sympathy vote, so they won't.
I'm not convinced the civilian deaths (no matter how shite it is) can be blamed entirely on Israel when they have no option but to bomb the military units there (I don't think ignoring it is a viable option, and as has been said - no other state/country in the world would stand back and allow it), at least partial responsibilty has to lie with Hamas because they are really the only party in the conflict that could prevent it.

However, I don't think this argument is really going to get anywhere.

Your view is just incredibly short sighted. You think that the firing of Hamas rockets vindicates to an extent Israel's bombing of Gaza. By the same logic why do you not think that the ejection from thier homeland and continued attack on Palestinians from all sides (see: the occupation, the Wall, the building of settlements, political prisoners, assasinations, destruction of infrastructure negating any hope for a viable state) vindicates Hamas's animosity to Israel?

[PAPA LAZEROU]

I think both sides should just sit down...with a nice big bag of bud...start bangin' a few bongs and shit....know whaaaa im sayyyin???

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by Goth_pixie

Hamas foreign policy is slightly more complex than "we want a bigger home", and launching rockets at civilians isn't exactly nice.

No, it's more like "we want our home back."

[0x21]

Originally Posted by supernothing

Your view is just incredibly short sighted. You think that the firing of Hamas rockets vindicates to an extent Israel's bombing of Gaza.

Correct, Israel is operating in the interests of its civilians and safety.

By the same logic why do you not think that the ejection from thier homeland and continued attack on Palestinians from all sides (see: the occupation, the Wall, the building of settlements, political prisoners, assasinations, destruction of infrastructure negating any hope for a viable state) vindicates Hamas's animosity to Israel?

It could, if there were targetting the oppressors (the Israeli army) instead of civilians who I'm sure have nothing (or very little, at best) to do with the situation. I certainly don't think Israel is blameless in the whole conflict, but I can see this current retaliation as perfectly justified.

[Goth_pixie]

Originally Posted by supernothing

The thing is it is only amongt the people that the palestinians are seen in a good light, at the level of power they have hardly any representation or support. I can't think of an issue where the public and powerful viewpoints are so divergent - despite constant media coverage favouring the Israelis. I'm not even going to take you up on the laughable idea that most people have sypathy with the palestinians to be "cool".

Actually, most of the media coverage seems fairly balanced, and not "Go Team Israel". The majority of governments have called for Israel to calm down and to start dialogue rather than continue offensives.

It's hardly laughable to suggest that an overly romantic depiction of courageous freedom fighters would appeal to the general public. The general public receives a considerable amount of pro-Palestine "advertising", with numerous websites and on-street canvassing, as well as groups in most universities and colleges, but there is very little awareness among the majority of the population of the other side of the debate.

The whole political mess that is the Israel-Palestine conflict is very complex, with fault on both sides, and overly romanticising or demonising one side is counterproductive.

[0x21]

Originally Posted by supernothing

THESE ROCKETS ARE SHITE, you cant target them. you put them over your shoulder and aim in the general direction of your oppressor.

Why bother with them then? Or alternatively, why not leave the civilian populations and fire them somewhere they have a chance of hitting some of the oppressors key military targets?

Are they just firing the rockets into Israel to provoke them into attacking for propaganda reasons?

[Largest of Als]

Originally Posted by Dec

I think they should send Danny, sex those jews up, maybe then they'd chill a little.

I now have a mental image of Danny, all oiled up, pole dancing while Quiz Bhoy slips fivers into his thong..


EEEEWWWWW!!!



Al

[Young Blood]

the thing is that there arent any targets around the wall.

that's why its there

to smuggle rockets into isreal and hit the targets...

cant imagine that's easy peasy