Israel enters Gaza (warning: some graphic content) - Page 5

Goth_pixie · 4th January 2009, 9:47pm

Thank you, Al. I may never sleep again.

*LesMTS* · 4th January 2009, 9:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0x21

at least partial responsibilty has to lie with Hamas because they are really the only party in the conflict that could prevent it.

Israel could give the Palestinians their home back, maybe. The civilians who are getting tuppeny-ha'penny rockets fired at them are living in stolen land.
While not hugely to blame, the people of Israel could also help matters by maybe not moving into land seized from the rightful owners by force.

beshemoth · 4th January 2009, 9:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0x21

Are they just firing the rockets into Israel to provoke them into attacking for propaganda reasons?

According to the daily mash

(Which was admittedly a lot funnier last week before they did actually invade).

*LesMTS* · 4th January 2009, 9:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0x21

Why bother with them then? Or alternatively, why not leave the civilian populations and fire them somewhere they have a chance of hitting some of the oppressors key military targets?

Are they just firing the rockets into Israel to provoke them into attacking for propaganda reasons?

What would you do? Shout sweary words?

Jenpot · 4th January 2009, 10:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0x21

Why bother with them then? Or alternatively, why not leave the civilian populations and fire them somewhere they have a chance of hitting some of the oppressors key military targets?

Are they just firing the rockets into Israel to provoke them into attacking for propaganda reasons?

What do you honestly expect them to do? As has been said MULTIPLE times, they're living in terrible conditions, in an area that was essentially stolen from them and they're supposed to just sit there and take it when Israel continues to carry out raids which break the ceasefire agreement?

To say that Israel is right in using this amount of force is completely ridiculous. If anything, i'd imagine that Hamas using the rockets in the first place was more of a symbolic protest than anything else.

I ask again, what else are they supposed to do?

supernothing · 4th January 2009, 10:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goth_pixie

Actually, most of the media coverage seems fairly balanced, and not "Go Team Israel". The majority of governments have called for Israel to calm down and to start dialogue rather than continue offensives.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the media coverage; I'm in Canada at the moment getting most of my news of the internet and BBC World News. Having said that, I don't think the news needs to shout "GO TEAM ISRAEL" to provide a pro-israeli slant; its the nuances such as word choice and sources used in otherwise objective seeming coverage that i think does the most to convince the public one way or the other.
As for the calls of world governments; they have all been completely toothless - no threats of sanctions or anything and the UN couldn't come to an agreement, not surprisingly (looking at you, America).

0x21 · 4th January 2009, 10:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMTS

What would you do? Shout sweary words?

I'd either aim the rockets at Israeli military structures, or if none are visible because of the wall, then I'd aim the rockets at the wall first and either fire rockets through the wall into military structures or at whatever comes to attack through the hole. But I wouldn't do it from within a densely populated civilian area, and I wouldn't be taking blind and innefective potshots and what is probably going to be civilian targets.

I don't claim to have any answers though, I've no idea what I'd do in that situation. I just don't believe that this current incident is entirely Israels fault, and my not being able to provide a real solution doesn't have any bearing on how valid any of the actions are.

Jenpot · 4th January 2009, 10:07pm

Did you not understand the concept of "THESE ROCKETS ARE SHIT" that was mentioned earlier?

i_am_blip · 4th January 2009, 10:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenpot

I ask again, what else are they supposed to do?

YouTube - WAR - Why Can't We Be Friends

*LesMTS* · 4th January 2009, 10:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0x21

I'd either aim the rockets at Israeli military structures, or if none are visible because of the wall, then I'd aim the rockets at the wall first and either fire rockets through the wall into military structures or at whatever comes to attack through the hole. But I wouldn't do it from within a densely populated civilian area, and I wouldn't be taking blind and innefective potshots and what is probably going to be civilian targets.

There aren't any not densely populated, not civilian areas in Gaza, because Israel have crammed an entire people in there while they enjoy the land these people used to call home.

0x21 · 4th January 2009, 10:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenpot

Did you not understand the concept of "THESE ROCKETS ARE SHIT" that was mentioned earlier?

The shit rocket concept is down to the accurancy and range - firing them at random into cities is almost useless as you probably won't hit anything and at long range they aren't very powerful either. If you can see what your aiming at and its not at the maximum range then there is a reasonable chance of hitting the target and doing damage (you could certainly take out a wall with them). If they were genuinely useless noone would bother making them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMTS

There aren't any not densely populated, not civilian areas in Gaza, because Israel have crammed an entire people in there while they enjoy the land these people used to call home.

Right up to the wall?

*LesMTS* · 4th January 2009, 10:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0x21

The shit rocket concept is down to the accurancy and range - firing them at random into cities is almost useless as you probably won't hit anything and at long range they aren't very powerful either. If you can see what your aiming at and its not at the maximum range then there is a reasonable chance of hitting the target and doing damage (you could certainly take out a wall with them). If they were genuinely useless noone would bother making them.

Right up to the wall?

Pretty much, aye. It's the most densely populated piece of land on Earth.

Jenpot · 4th January 2009, 10:21pm

I mean, I'm just guessing here, but wouldn't the giant fuck-off wall that was built around the lovely stolen land have armed guards watching for such rocket attacks?

I don't understand why you're so appalled at Hamas firing rockets as a protest to Israel breaking the ceasefire, when Israel have killed hundreds of civilians in Gaza. Proportionately, Israel have done far worse in this situation.

*LesMTS* · 4th January 2009, 10:23pm

Semprini · 4th January 2009, 10:41pm

For reference, here's the Balfour declaration made by the British government in 1917 (emphasis mine)

Quote:

His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country