Bye Bye cheap booze?

[MarkMono]

10p tins of lager in supermarkets are hardly a new thing, think you're just getting respectable in your olden age.

Originally Posted by Kenny Everett

Part of me agrees with you, part doesn't. We've all seen perfectly rational humans turned into absolute monsters when they've got a drink in them!

True, but I've seen the same with people and football too. Christ, I've seen grown men fight over Jack Kirby comics.

And lets face it, you don't often see perfectly rational people suddenly spaz out when they have a drink. It far more normally tends to be that sullen, violent psychotics turn into extroverted, violent psychotics.

[poprock]

Originally Posted by MarkMono

People who are going to go out and fight go out and fight.

Undisputable. Booze is often a factor in people who don’t go out meaning to fight ending up doing so anyway, though.

Only in as much as drinking to excess encourages poor judgement, but y’know what I mean.

[Bunnylingus]

Originally Posted by Kenny Everett

See, I don't mean that at all here. I'd bet you that the majority of assaults and other anti social behaviours commited on friday and saturday nights have alcohol as a mitigating factor. People in this country go out and get blitzed and lose control, that's the cold hard fact.

I would agree and say that it was a mitigating factor, but I would also agree that -

Originally Posted by MarkMono

They also tie their shoes before doing so. And the majority have been wearing trousers.

People who are going to go out and fight go out and fight.

There's people who probably wouldn't have been in a fight if it weren't for booze, but I think that it's an exaggerated figure.

I definitely agree that people drink to the point where they do lose control and that's got a lot more side effects than just violence, and I definitely do think that the way we drink needs to be addressed.

[MarkMono]

There is no evidence to suggest that having cheap alcohol substantially affects these figures also. I mean, other European countries seem to deal with having far cheap alcohol than us just fine.

This is just another tax for the poor.

[Bunnylingus]

That's my point - changing the price won't change the attitude.

[poprock]

Originally Posted by MarkMono

This is just another tax for the poor.

No, it’d be a tax for the poor who want to get blitzed. Alcoholic drinks are a luxury, not a necessity.

‘Tax’ ain’t the right choice of word there anyhow. There’s no clue where the extra cash would be going yet, is there?

[MarkMono]

Don't worry, soon poor peoiple won't be able to afford to support their habits, which'll solve alcoholism once and for all.

Except it won't. The only purpose it serves is as a tax.

Originally Posted by Bunnylingus

That's my point - changing the price won't change the attitude.

Its not even a start either, you'd actually have to be taking a step in the right direction for that.

The message this sends out is that alcoholism is purely the province of poor people, so we're going to make them pay more for it.

Nonsense.

[Kenny Everett]

Originally Posted by Bunnylingus

That's my point - changing the price won't change the attitude.

How do you change the attitude?

If you price alcohol a little bit further out of reach than normal, then surely that goes hand in hand? You're almost forcing a behavioural change as people have to consider drinking as much because of the cost involved.

[poprock]

Originally Posted by MarkMono

The message this sends out is that alcoholism is purely the province of poor people, so we're going to make them pay more for it.

Nonsense.

So raise prices across the board instead then. Hike up the tax on alcohol even higher. Ridiculously high. Make getting pissed a real luxury pursuit and the exclusive province of the wealthy. That’d be good for a laugh.

[MarkMono]

Heh 'The Defenestration of Glasgow'.

If only there were some way to prohibit people from drinking. I hear they had great success with that in the US.

Originally Posted by Kenny Everett

How do you change the attitude?

If you price alcohol a little bit further out of reach than normal, then surely that goes hand in hand? You're almost forcing a behavioural change as people have to consider drinking as much because of the cost involved.

That would work if they weren't raising the price on something people want already.

[poprock]

Originally Posted by Kenny Everett

How do you change the attitude?

If you price alcohol a little bit further out of reach than normal, then surely that goes hand in hand? You're almost forcing a behavioural change as people have to consider drinking as much because of the cost involved.

This is pretty much exactly what most Western governments are trying to do with car ownership and use. The suggestions mentioned about minimum booze pricing are just an attempt to try the same approach on a different behavioural issue.

[Bunnylingus]

Originally Posted by Kenny Everett

How do you change the attitude?

If you price alcohol a little bit further out of reach than normal, then surely that goes hand in hand? You're almost forcing a behavioural change as people have to consider drinking as much because of the cost involved.

Well, the people I think that it's really targeting are the people with the real problems - and I think that money should have been issue long ago if it was going to be an issue now, if that makes sense?

And again, I think people will spend less elsewhere in order to keep the same sort of drinking lifestyle.

I'm not saying it's a totally wrong move and nothing good will come of it - I just think there's much more to it than making people think about how much money they're spending on it.

I think that encouraging younger people to drink more responsibly is a good start - giving them things to do other than drink is a good idea.

Speaking from personal experience, my group started drinking so much because there was nothing else for us to do, and I don't think that it's as class limited as some of the stuff I've been reading recently seems to suggest.

[Exit_W0unds]

Originally Posted by Kenny Everett

How do you change the attitude?

If you price alcohol a little bit further out of reach than normal, then surely that goes hand in hand? You're almost forcing a behavioural change as people have to consider drinking as much because of the cost involved.

But if you did it with food, would it stop obesiety? I wholey understand that attitudes need to be changed and that the process of doing so will never be easy nor immediate, but because some folk don't know their limits and cause problems for others it's hardly fair to tar everyone with the same brush.

[MarkMono]

Originally Posted by poprock

This is pretty much exactly what most Western governments are trying to do with car ownership and use. The suggestions mentioned about minimum booze pricing are just an attempt to try the same approach on a different behavioural issue.

They're discouraging small, cheap cars?

Surely not, surely it would make more sense to discourage giant gas-guzzling bottles of cham...I mean SUV's?

[Bunnylingus]

Originally Posted by MarkMono

.
That would work if they weren't raising the price on something people want already.

Also, this is probably a better way of putting it.