Bye Bye cheap booze?

[MarkMono]

If these fucking idiots are going to spend their last tenner on getting a bottle when they need food as well, then fuck 'em. Why shouldn't the government/NHS make some money off of their asininity? They'll end up paying for their treatment later on, they might as well.

While we're at it, why don't we put smackheads in hamster wheels?

They could be powering our cities rather than dying in shitty housing.

[Syxx]

If they were going really extreme, they would raise the prices of all alcohol. As has been said numerous times, it's a start. Low-risk, potentially high reward, and absolutely fuck all drawbacks.

[MarkMono]

Brett missed a lot of the thread apparently.

Unless he suffers from some sort of 'drawback-blindness'

[Nuff]

I'm not into this 'solution' at all. Like many thinks putting up the prices screws people who drink responsibly. Why should they be punished for the binge drinking generation.

Frankly I don't want to pay anymore for my drinks when i'm out, they are dear enough as it is in certain places. The SNP are twats, i'm still seething they got voted in.

Surely educating kids younger in school about the danger of drinking would be a more productive start before we go to this length.

[poprock]

You have to make the entire idea of drinking less appealing, and history shows that prohibition does not achieve this.

The best way to do that is probably to try and make make not drinking more appealing instead.

What’s most peoples’ number one excuse for not drinking when they otherwise would be? “Can’t mate, I’m driving tonight.” They’re not drinking because it’s more appealing to be able to drive at that moment, for whatever reason (financial, comfort, ease, responsibility, whatever).

The second most popular reason is probably “I don’t drink”. More often than not, that’s a moral decision, or health based. I’d guess that the quickest route to cutting our culture’s alcohol intake would be to promote those as desirable things—the moral high ground or the health benefits. Quite how you do that without being a preachy, irritating arsehole however, I’m not sure.

[Foxglove]

Isn't the argument of "I drank when I was 12 because there was nothing better to do" just another poor excuse though. Are we really breeding generations of people that have an inability to do anything unless it is offered to them on a plate? There are always things to do which don't take money or alcohol but might actually require imagination which is something that appears to be lost to some people - and that is a very sad reflection of the society we are in. There are so many excuses people give but ultimately the problem rests with a culture of blame where people will always excuse behaviour on anything but themselves.

[MarkMono]

I disagree with everything Holly just said (Wistful nostalgia for a world that never was.) and the relevance of most of what Tony just said (How do we make responsiblity appealing? Nah, wrong track entirely.) and I think we're straying from the point somewhat here.

[Syxx]

Brett missed a lot of the thread apparently.

Unless he suffers from some sort of 'drawback-blindness'

Show me a legitimate fucking drawback that isn't "Oh, but booze will be more expensive". And stop editing your posts all the time. And fix your hair while we're at it.

[crazydiamond85]

Bastard!
this means I might have to pay twice as much to find girls in the Classic Grand attractive

[Rio Ohki]

While we're at it, why don't we put smackheads in hamster wheels?

They could be powering our cities rather than dying in shitty housing.

Because they're lazy batards.

[djtoast]

I can well imagine there are plenty of people who will make sacrifices in areas other than alcohol if prices rise. Maybe areas like new shoes for their children, or the quality of food they buy for them.

This seems to me a bit like raising the price of cars to combat speeding. Raising the price of certain car-related taxes to encourage environmentalism possibly makes sense; raising the cost of speeding tickets might help to combat speeding. But too big a grey area in between problem and "solution" and people's resentment probably outweighs the likelihood of a change in attitudes to more healthy ones. For example, I'm always amazed that speed cameras are as unpopular as they are - speeding is illegal but people resent the idea that people are prosecuted for this particular crime, for whatever reason. Rather than helping make speeding socially acceptable, they create a whole business around detecting them so you can do 180mph everywhere except for the 100 yard stretch where your satnav beeps.

Likewise at best I can see this shifting problems around - make alcohol more expensive and you're as likely to increase theft from off licences (and illegal immigrants spriinting through the eurotunnel with bags full of no-name grappa) as you are to convince people that drinking isn't how they wanna spend their friday night, I expect.

Which is a long-winded way of saying I suppose they should try something but if this has a noticable effect i'll eat my flying pig's hat.

[katinacooker]

Isn't the argument of "I drank when I was 12 because there was nothing better to do" just another poor excuse though. Are we really breeding generations of people that have an inability to do anything unless it is offered to them on a plate? There are always things to do which don't take money or alcohol but might actually require imagination which is something that appears to be lost to some people - and that is a very sad reflection of the society we are in. There are so many excuses people give but ultimately the problem rests with a culture of blame where people will always excuse behaviour on anything but themselves.

We used to take our bikes up to this big silt pile in kirky, where someone had made lots of jumps and dips into a dirt track. we spent a whole summer up there, and yet when the council found out about it they came up with diggers and turned it up. and didnt replace it with anything.

We skated in the street, we got pulled up by the police. We hung around up the park behind my house, we got split up and moved on by the police. When i was in 4th year they decided to make a skate park in kirky. the council still havent done anything. They used to run unders nights in a couple of halls, they got shut down. Right now i'm struggling to think of anything that there is to do for young people in kirky right now, and anything that i could think up, would probably get moved on/shut down/taken down.

[pANDAS Radio]

Low-risk, potentially high reward, and absolutely fuck all drawbacks.

They want people to pay a certain amount for each unit of alcohol in the bottle. That serves as a drawback for the Whisky industry as a good single malt will have more units than the same amount of average Whisky. So the base price of single malts goes up, exports drop, less money coming in from one of our most recognisable industries. There's the drawback that is being discussed by distilleries all over the country.

This is to counter binge drinking, that's the aim they've stated. Will an extra £2.50 on a Friday or Saturday night discourage those who'd end up in a fight? Or would it actually encourage them to consume slightly more alcohol at home, then go out - where they may end up in the same fight? Probably not.

When the credit crunch started it was noticed that more people were buying alcohol to stay in, rather than going out for the night. This idea would result in something similar, maybe even encouraging someone to have 3 or 4 drinks before going out when they'd normally just have 1 or 2. It won't help alcoholics (they'll pay the extra because they're addicted), it won't stop a twat getting wasted and starting a fight and it won't stop kids drinking on street corners.

Alcohol is a great scapegoat for lots of the problems that exist today, but hiking up the price of alcohol won't remove those problems - it's a sticky plaster on a gunshot wound to the head.

[djtoast]

When the credit crunch started it was noticed that more people were buying alcohol to stay in, rather than going out for the night.

people will end up fighting their mates instead of strangers

[Bunnylingus]

Isn't the argument of "I drank when I was 12 because there was nothing better to do" just another poor excuse though. Are we really breeding generations of people that have an inability to do anything unless it is offered to them on a plate? There are always things to do which don't take money or alcohol but might actually require imagination which is something that appears to be lost to some people - and that is a very sad reflection of the society we are in. There are so many excuses people give but ultimately the problem rests with a culture of blame where people will always excuse behaviour on anything but themselves.

Not at all. Kids are impressionable - it's different for people our age but when you're 12 and you can't go to the park because gangs hang about there/burst your last 3 footballs, and none of your parents will let you all in their house, alcohol becomes appealing. Hanging about doing nothing might be boring, hanging about drinking isn't.

I can well imagine there are plenty of people who will make sacrifices in areas other than alcohol if prices rise. Maybe areas like new shoes for their children, or the quality of food they buy for them.

This seems to me a bit like raising the price of cars to combat speeding. Raising the price of certain car-related taxes to encourage environmentalism possibly makes sense; raising the cost of speeding tickets might help to combat speeding. But too big a grey area in between problem and "solution" and people's resentment probably outweighs the likelihood of a change in attitudes to more healthy ones. For example, I'm always amazed that speed cameras are as unpopular as they are - speeding is illegal but people resent the idea that people are prosecuted for this particular crime, for whatever reason. Rather than helping make speeding socially acceptable, they create a whole business around detecting them so you can do 180mph everywhere except for the 100 yard stretch where your satnav beeps.

Likewise at best I can see this shifting problems around - make alcohol more expensive and you're as likely to increase theft from off licences (and illegal immigrants spriinting through the eurotunnel with bags full of no-name grappa) as you are to convince people that drinking isn't how they wanna spend their friday night, I expect.

Which is a long-winded way of saying I suppose they should try something but if this has a noticable effect i'll eat my flying pig's hat.

Aye. I agree with all of that.

If people need something so badly, they'll get it.

They want people to pay a certain amount for each unit of alcohol in the bottle. That serves as a drawback for the Whisky industry as a good single malt will have more units than the same amount of average Whisky. So the base price of single malts goes up, exports drop, less money coming in from one of our most recognisable industries. There's the drawback that is being discussed by distilleries all over the country.

This is to counter binge drinking, that's the aim they've stated. Will an extra £2.50 on a Friday or Saturday night discourage those who'd end up in a fight? Or would it actually encourage them to consume slightly more alcohol at home, then go out - where they may end up in the same fight? Probably not.

When the credit crunch started it was noticed that more people were buying alcohol to stay in, rather than going out for the night. This idea would result in something similar, maybe even encouraging someone to have 3 or 4 drinks before going out when they'd normally just have 1 or 2. It won't help alcoholics (they'll pay the extra because they're addicted), it won't stop a twat getting wasted and starting a fight and it won't stop kids drinking on street corners.

Alcohol is a great scapegoat for lots of the problems that exist today, but hiking up the price of alcohol won't remove those problems - it's a sticky plaster on a gunshot wound to the head.

Aye.

They should look at how kids are GETTING the alcohol in the first place - I think the under 25 thing a lot of shops have got going on right now is a decent start to that.

Also, what about small businesses that'll be affected by this? There's talk of problems in the border towns - people from Dumfries going to Carlisle for their big shops including alcohol instead of the smaller, local businesses.