Orange walks [Split from 8th August thread]

poprock · 6th August 2009, 9:54am

Right, it’s time I learned a bit about this stuff that annoys me so much.

Someone answer a few really basic questions for me, because I’ve lived in Glasgow on and off for ten years now and I still don’t get it.

The walks are all about the Orange Order, aye? Which side are they on, Catholic or Protestant?

Is that Rangers or Celtic, then? Which team is which religion?

There’s a link with the Irish, right? What’s that then?

The walks are meant to celebrate a battle, I get that. Did they win or lose it? Are they celebrating killing folk, or commemorating their own fallen?

How does ‘remembering a battle’ become ‘trying really hard to wind up the old enemy’? Because that’s why they march, isn’t it? To prove they’re hard enough to walk through enemy territory?

Ta.

MarkMono · 6th August 2009, 9:57am

Can you start your own thread or split this please?

(My eyes will bleed if I have to read AltNation's answers to those questions, and I'd like to have the option)

sjonit · 6th August 2009, 9:59am

Do you actually want those questions answered???

poprock · 6th August 2009, 10:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMono

Can you start your own thread or split this please?

(My eyes will bleed if I have to read AltNation's answers to those questions, and I'd like to have the option)

Done.

Y’know, you could just get in first with sensible answers. If you wanted to be kind.

MarkMono · 6th August 2009, 10:02am

I'll get in first and say that for the majority Rangers are associated with protestantism and Celtic with Catholicism, but both teams and a large portion of the fans will go out of their way to say that neither team is religiously affiliated.

And I'm out. Cheers Tony.

Westy · 6th August 2009, 10:04am

Orange Order = Protestant.

Rangers fans are predominantly Protestant. Infact Glasgow is predominantly Protestant.

The 12th of July march is a celebration of Protestant King William's victory over Catholic King James and his predominantly Irish Catholic Jacobite army. King James was trying to regain the throne which he lost 2 years earlier.

And they march as a reminder I suppose. Its part of their folklore and all that.

poprock · 6th August 2009, 10:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjonit

Do you actually want those questions answered???

That’s usually the point of asking questions, aye.

I know it’s easy to take for granted that ‘everybody knows’ all this stuff, but unless you were brought up around it you really don’t.

I mean, I get the general idea most of the time but nobody has ever actually taken the time to explain the basics and I’ve never given enough of a shit to ask. I just see both sides as causing more trouble than they’re worth and avoid everything as much as I can.

Jaemi · 6th August 2009, 10:04am

Quote:

The walks are all about the Orange Order, aye? Which side are they on, Catholic or Protestant?

Prod.

Quote:

Is that Rangers or Celtic, then? Which team is which religion?

Predominantly it's:
Rangers - Prod
Celtic - Catholic

Quote:

There’s a link with the Irish, right? What’s that then?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1422212.stm

Jaemi · 6th August 2009, 10:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westy

Infact Glasgow is predominantly Protestant.

Hmmm

poprock · 6th August 2009, 10:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaemi

Hmmm

I’d guess that (like most places) Glasgow’s predominant religion is ‘not giving a toss’, but out of those who actually do take religion semi-seriously Westy’s probably right.

The city centre seems to be Celtic territory though, and that’s got a bigger influence.

Jaemi · 6th August 2009, 10:13am

He might be right. It was the context I found strange.

"The KKK are an american organisation who want to promote white power. Infact American is predominantly white."

poprock · 6th August 2009, 10:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaemi

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1422212.stm

That explains a lot, ta.

I know we don’t get it anything like as bad up here, but that’s because the actual war between the two sides was still going on very recently in Ireland. You could probably fairly say that it still is, and will be for at least another generation or two.

Mrs.Evil of Hesselink · 6th August 2009, 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by poprock

I know it’s easy to take for granted that ‘everybody knows’ all this stuff, but unless you were brought up around it you really don’t.

Really? I think you're just after the carnage you know this thread it going to produce.

William of Orange and the Battle of Boyne is basic high school history is it not?

The 'link with the Irish' is probably explained each and every time anything significant to Catholic/Protestant tensions occurs in N. Ireland. So unless you've been living in a sealed box or never watch/read the news you must know what that's all about.

You already mentioned you came across two Rangers supporters hanging on the end of last year's march which suggests you already know that it is Rangers fans that get associated with the marches.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you just want to see a scrap.

I approve.

AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS · 6th August 2009, 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by poprock

The walks are all about the Orange Order, aye? Which side are they on, Catholic or Protestant?

The Orange Order are a Pro-Protestant, Anti-Catholic organisation.
Sectarian if you will.

Quote:

Is that Rangers or Celtic, then? Which team is which religion?

Neither team are either religion, so I'll give this daft arse question the wide berth.

Quote:

There’s a link with the Irish, right? What’s that then?

Yes. The Orange Order were originally the Peep O'Day boys, who originated from Ireland. Named as such because they were "famed" for Dawn raids/burning of Catholic occupied property.

Quote:

The walks are meant to celebrate a battle, I get that. Did they win or lose it? Are they celebrating killing folk, or commemorating their own fallen?

Westy answered the first part.
As for Celebrating or commemorating their own fallen - maybe once upon a time, maybe some believe they still are. I don't, on account of their marching routes, and the constant redirecting and planning of new marching routes through areas where Protestant Triumphalism is not wanted. Through routes which are not "traditional" to their tradition.

Quote:

How does ‘remembering a battle’ become ‘trying really hard to wind up the old enemy’? Because that’s why they march, isn’t it? To prove they’re hard enough to walk through enemy territory?

It depends what you call remembering the battle - that's what the march on the 12th is, but the marching starts on July 1st and finishes just after the 12th.

poprock · 6th August 2009, 10:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs.Evil of Hesselink

Really? I think you're just after the carnage you know this thread it going to produce.

No, I actually wanted some straight answers mixed in with some opinions, rather than getting textbook answers by looking stuff up. I figure there’s a few folk from each side of the fence here, so I’ll get both versions as well as the usual folk who just despair of it all (like me).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs.Evil of Hesselink

William of Orange and the Battle of Boyne is basic high school history is it not?

Maybe up here it is, but I’m English. I’m a Yorkshireman. We mostly learned about Vikings and Romans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs.Evil of Hesselink

You already mentioned you came across two Rangers supporters hanging on the end of last year's march which suggests you already know that it is Rangers fans that get associated with the marches.

That’s fair, aye. I do have eyes in my head and I can see what colour shirts the drunken fans are wearing. I honestly just thought it’d be nice to get myself set straight once and for all and stop forgetting which sides which etc.