Barack Obama & health care reform.

System_Star · 11th August 2009, 8:58pm

I am utterly depressed with the what I've been reading online and watching on youtube with regards to the opposition on Obamas proposed healthcare reform.

For example:

YouTube - Loud, Disruptive Health Care Town Halls

& Sarah Palin ranting about "death panels":

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=sara...d=113851103434

I know the NHS is creaky, but I don't understand why the insane opposition, death threats and the such. Horrid.

sjonit · 11th August 2009, 9:24pm

What does he plan on doing to the health service?? Bring something a kin to National Insurance contributions in?

Treetop Flyer · 11th August 2009, 9:49pm

I'm not sure but I think so. The problem the Americans have is the amount of propaganda they have to put up with, social health care is akin to Communism to them, the fact near enough every other country in the world has universal care doesn't sway them. They say America spends twice per head than any other nation, is that soley what the government spends or does that include what the citizens pay in insurance as well?

*LesMTS* · 12th August 2009, 7:02am

It's an emotive issue because the American right are TERRIFIED of socialism. I mean REALLY, literally, terrified of it; not just opposed to it.
And the politicians on the right have been whipping them up with complete disinformation, including distributing e-mails to older voters saying that, in the UK, you're not allowed any treatment for a heart condition if you're older than 59, that older cancer patients are denied treatment because their lives aren't worth it (they actually put this out as a TV ad) and that the NHS puts a specific price on a year of life. According to the papers this morning, anyway.

I'm Your God Now · 12th August 2009, 7:53am

Pretty much just re-iterates how fucking idiotic Americans can be.

*LesMTS* · 12th August 2009, 8:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm Your God Now

Pretty much just re-iterates how fucking idiotic Americans can be.

Every country has its idiots. They're no worse, as a collective, than us.

I'm Your God Now · 12th August 2009, 8:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMTS

Every country has its idiots. They're no worse, as a collective, than us.

I wasn't thinking of it in terms of actual intelligence, more over the will to believe almost anything someone in the Government/an Official/Church Bloke will say. I know here we have a vast amount off loonballs, but (as a majority) we take things people tell us with a pinch of salt.
I'm not tarring every Yank with that brush, because having not been all around the US recently and had any first hand experience, that would be an unfair thing to do.

While I get my information from the same sources as most folk, I very well could be having a go at people for what I have really done myself.

TSR · 12th August 2009, 1:54pm

Oh dear.
Tried to find it on youtube but to no avail, so you'll have to endure a bit of Mr Stewart first

Click

Dec · 12th August 2009, 3:42pm

Noam Chomsky sums this issue up extremely well. This is nothing to do with providing a better quality of life for the American people, it's about protecting the interests of American business.

YouTube - Noam Chomsky on Health Care--Why has...

MarkMono · 12th August 2009, 3:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMTS

Every country has its idiots. They're no worse, as a collective, than us.

Thats an assumption, nearly as foolish as assuming that they're mostly idiots.

Generalising on the basis of their poor education system and braindead media is admittedly a little unfair.

SkaterMcgee · 15th August 2009, 8:37am

Seems like USA is some shit.

I'm Your God Now · 15th August 2009, 3:43pm

Amazing.

Treetop Flyer · 15th August 2009, 4:28pm

Apparently our own NHS system had a lot of opponents during it's birth, the same arguements about choice and level of quality care. It will be interesting to see how it pans out, propaganda versus reality. There was one thing some commentator said that made me wonder, she said the American system creates competition between drug manufactuers so they develop better cures. Even though it doesn't defeat the arguement of universal health care it makes a lot of sense. How do you reply to that?

endless psych · 15th August 2009, 4:33pm

Well you could call it for the out and out lie it is. Pharmaceutical companies spend more money now on marketing then they do on actual research. I suspect that a "market driven" health service has something to do with that...

Drug companies are focused on protecting patents and developing drugs similar to their opponents in readiness for patent expiry. They are also committed in the states to insane direct advertising to consumers. The American system turns drugs companies into the pharmaceutical equivalents of coke and pepsi and I'd argue it also harms the development of new drugs to treat AIDS, cancer etc. Probably doesn't do the developing world all that good either...

I dug out a few stats and had a rant abot this here.

Treetop Flyer · 15th August 2009, 5:32pm

There are so many philosophical questions this situation creates, not so much the fundamental right to but the necessity of health (and education and housing). The development of human society is based on Quid Pro Quo, there has to be some balance whether it be abstract or empirical, there has to be some satisfaction. And this is where two worlds meet I guess because isn't it true that money creates desire creates innovation creates solutions etc?

So in a State run system who would have the desire to create cures but more importantly why?