Royal Mail to hire 30,000 scabs

[Addy]

Originally Posted by crazydiamond85

I would support any trade union who is fighting for the rights of its members to have good working conditions

So do I - until their methods essentially become holding the country to ransom, which crippling the nation's postal service is doing. It's the same thing I said about the firefighters' strike a few years back - I supported the firefighters, but not full blown national strikes.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by Addy

So do I - until their methods essentially become holding the country to ransom, which crippling the nation's postal service is doing. It's the same thing I said about the firefighters' strike a few years back - I supported the firefighters, but not full blown national strikes.

Our right to democracy ends at inconvinience.

[Addy]

Originally Posted by endless psych

Our right to democracy ends at inconvinience.

Let's not be so harsh, there's a difference between opposing full national strikes that deprive much of the country of a basic resource and opposing freedom

[metallideth]

Ah right, so they can be free to think about defending their jobs but not free to act to defend them? This thread's already taken the Nonsense Train down the lol-ercoaster once, might as well go for a second ride.

[Addy]

Originally Posted by metallideth

Ah right, so they can be free to think about defending their jobs but not free to act to defend them? This thread's already taken the Nonsense Train down the lol-ercoaster once, might as well go for a second ride.

Why is it so hard to understand that I don't oppose industrial action, including strikes, as long as it's not taken to this kind of extreme? Ordinary people don't deserve the problems this causes, just the company.

All I see resulting from this is the Royal Mail coming close to bankrupty and a lot of people being pissed off because they haven't got their mail. I completely sympathise with the posties, just not their methods in this instance.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by Addy

Why is it so hard to understand that I don't oppose industrial action, including strikes, as long as it's not taken to this kind of extreme? Ordinary people don't deserve the problems this causes, just the company.

So strikes that don't/won't have any impact with management are no bother?

Ordinary people are inevitable collatoral damage when an almost) exclusively service industry based concern strikes. Given the state of our manufacturing base your effectively saying that most workers can only strike on the smallest of scales. (Perhaps taking an extra teabreak or refusting to cadge bourgeois upper management types fags at break?).

Ordinary people should perhaps take a sideways glance at things like this and realise that "there but for the grace of God go I"... Sleepwalking into corporate buttfuckery and no mistake (if we aren't already there snoring while we are sodimized).

All I see resulting from this is the Royal Mail coming close to bankrupty and a lot of people being pissed off because they haven't got their mail. I completely sympathise with the posties, just not their methods in this instance.

Same as any strike though. Mainly due to the fact that there seems to be this implicit attitude in this country that everyone should bend over and take it from the man as "progress" in the name of market competition and growth seems to trump more human values...

I mean is it not a bit of a paradox that deregulated market capitalism pretty much requires fresh spenders but is designed to systematically rob people of their ability to spend by downsizing to become more competitive?

[0x21]

Originally Posted by poprock

I’ve got no faith in the Royal Mail any more. These strikes have fucked it for good. From the best mail service in the world to a complete joke in the space of a year. The union have managed to ruin the company, the bloody idiots.

Exactly, and its not as if they have a monopoly anymore either so they really should be trying to maintain an image of competance at least. I certainly avoid using the post unless I have to, and even at that I don't normally expect anything to turn up in tact or on time.

Edit: Not that any of the private couriers are any better, I have to admit. Buying things in person ftw.

[0x21]

Originally Posted by crazydiamond85

I for one am sick to death of folks complaining about the postal service, if you think you could do any better than your average postie then why not try the job and see for yourself.

I've got nothing against the posties and they do work hard, but they are managed by a horde of incompetant idiots and the strike action is only going to make people lose faith in the postal service. Less faith in postal service = less post = less jobs.

[TSR]

Originally Posted by endless psych

So strikes that don't/won't have any impact with management are no bother?

Ordinary people are inevitable collatoral damage when an almost) exclusively service industry based concern strikes. Given the state of our manufacturing base your effectively saying that most workers can only strike on the smallest of scales. (Perhaps taking an extra teabreak or refusting to cadge bourgeois upper management types fags at break?).

Royal Mail still essentially has a monopoly, though. If they refuse to deliver mail they're holding the country to ransom - you can't say the same for printers, a supermarket chain, etc. They may well have legitimate concerns over workloads, but all anyone's hearing about is "they're striking because of modernisation & resulting job cuts" - things private sector go through constantly, hence no or little sympathy. If they wanted public support (which is really needed) then they shouldn't have tried this over the christmas period, and had seperate talks regarding modernisation concerns and workload concerns

Originally Posted by Dec

Thread's a trainwreck, however, have not stopped lolling at this particular doozie:

If anyone can figure out how this belter of a statement in any way relates to the matter at hand, you're a fucking genius.

You're right, it doesn't relate to the matter at hand - neither does the original that I quoted. Obvious to even untrained monkeys, so why go even further off-topic to point it out?

[erithromycin]

The current management team at RM have had, what, eight years to try to get the organisation running at least somewhat effectively, and to build goodwill with the union. They've failed on both counts, massively.

The union totally have a case, but the strike action has set most folk against them. Almost everyone I know has a story about how the post have screwed up. I'm not sure when it was that the goodwill that was extended to them as public servants was eroded, but it appears to be gone now, and the general negative reaction to the strike is part and parcel of that.

Analyses based on the business of downstream mail and the universal service obligation are totally spot on - other post offices manage it pretty effectively, however, with different degrees of state aid. Every time I deal with Japan Post I am astonished by their timeliness and efficiency (and the fact that you can get online package tracking which tells you which prefecture post office it's in and when), but they are supported by being Japan's biggest bank. The post is more or less like trains or buses - even if there's nothing for you in the post-bag, the postie has still got to make that journey. It won't deregulate in the same way though, and that was the mistake made with the removal of a monopoly position. Monopolies are not necessarily bad - especially with reference to public services.

One of the major miscalculations, to my mind, has been the influence of the internet. Yes, letter post is way down (allegedly), but parcel post is up, and people expect it to work. I'd generally be against cross subsidy from the ISPs to the post office, but god damn it when I buy something off eBay I want it to turn up.

[metallideth]

Originally Posted by TSR

but all anyone's hearing about is "they're striking because of modernisation & resulting job cuts" - things private sector go through constantly, hence no or little sympathy

Right, so because shit happens on a regular basis that makes it 'right'. Ethics 101 here we come.

If they wanted public support (which is really needed) then they [should have] had seperate talks regarding modernisation concerns and workload concerns

They already have, this strike is happening because RM have reneged on previous agreements on the matter made in 2007 and won't negotiate now. Again, we're back in Addyland where everyone's allowed to have their opinion because we're all liberal and nicey-nicey and not the Third Reich, but as soon as anyone at the bottom end of the rung tries to remove the giant cock of monetarism from their very sore rear end for a couple of minutes they suddenly become part of a raving pseudo-criminal conspiracy to 'hold the country to ransom'.

[sjonit]

I work for Royal Mail, we need to modernise.

If we dont companies like TNT will step in with all the equipment we should already have and run us out of business.

This has to happen.

I think the government should provide the capital for future growth and not outsource to foreign investors.

[supernothing]

I dont know why the CWU don't use the fact that they have daily access to the nations front door to give people the posties' side of the story. Newletters, etc.

[Westy]

Originally Posted by sjonit

I work for Royal Mail, we need to modernise.

If we dont companies like TNT will step in with all the equipment we should already have and run us out of business.

This has to happen.

I think the government should provide the capital for future growth and not outsource to foreign investors.

sjonit, when did you join the BNP?



I'm not sure I have an opinon on the strikes, to be honest. Its a huge gamble by the Union and its members.

[TSR]

Originally Posted by metallideth

Right, so because shit happens on a regular basis that makes it 'right'. Ethics 101 here we come.

Happens on a regular basis because it has to. "That which does not evolve, dies"
Public sector staff seem to think they're immune from this because they work for The Man - then they get pissed off because The Man is trying to hump them the same way private sector staff get humped by The Boss yes, I am aware that's a generalisation

Again, we're back in Addyland where everyone's allowed to have their opinion because we're all liberal and nicey-nicey and not the Third Reich, but as soon as anyone at the bottom end of the rung tries to remove the giant cock of monetarism from their very sore rear end for a couple of minutes they suddenly become part of a raving pseudo-criminal conspiracy to 'hold the country to ransom'.

As I tried to say, Royal Mail is unique because when they strike, it affects the whole country
Also, it's not just the guys at the bottom who have the gov'ts cock up their ass - they just get more sympathy/press coverage