Royal Mail to hire 30,000 scabs

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by TSR

Happens on a regular basis because it has to. "That which does not evolve, dies"
Public sector staff seem to think they're immune from this because they work for The Man - then they get pissed off because The Man is trying to hump them the same way private sector staff get humped by The Boss yes, I am aware that's a generalisation

It doesn't "have to happen" that's the point. I think folks should have a look at the likes of http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/...equality Trust website. Makes a compelling case that we'd be better off as a society if we concentrated more on people then profits.

The natural selection analogy for market capitalism is also flawed as the advent of transglobal corporations and their effective monopolies effectively stifle anything that could be termed as "evolution".

It's also seemingly based on the notion that somehow a free market somehow promotes greater freedom and democracy. Based on the idea that the market somehow "rights" itself due to the laws of supply and demand and we get the best goods for the best price.

If anyone has read a newspaper recently I think we can safely say we aren't getting the best journalism for our buck. The scandal of invented diseases and the medicalisation of social problems and insignificant ailments by big pharma being another example of an area that free market economics should get the fuck out of.

Perhaps a tad on the incoherent and rambling side but really I'd rather pay more for a less "efficient" (for efficient read less staff doing more work essentially) and less "modernised" (folk on the scrapheap) system if having more people in work led to a more equitable and ergo better society.

[Shannow]

I think now is the right time to post as many bananas as one can manage, so that they may start decomposing in the vast backlog pile.

[metallideth]

Originally Posted by TSR

Happens on a regular basis because it has to. "That which does not evolve, dies"

Are you seriously trying to apply a biological theory to political decision-making?

[XMachina]

Originally Posted by TSR

Happens on a regular basis because it has to. "That which does not evolve, dies"
Public sector staff seem to think they're immune from this because they work for The Man - then they get pissed off because The Man is trying to hump them the same way private sector staff get humped by The Boss yes, I am aware that's a generalisation

Kindly read up on the likes of the NHS 'Agenda for Change' scheme if for no other reason to show how wide of the mark this armchair bullshit is.

[endless psych]

Originally Posted by XMachina

Kindly read up on the likes of the NHS 'Agenda for Change' scheme if for no other reason to show how wide of the mark this armchair bullshit is.

I had to write my own job description for the NHS agenda for change just so I could get paid!

(Stupidly I detailed my actual resposibilites other then utter nonsense )

[sjonit]

Originally Posted by Shannow

I think now is the right time to post as many bananas as one can manage, so that they may start decomposing in the vast backlog pile.

The good old days.

Ppl who say they would rather pay more for a good or service, thats all well and good in a hunky dorey society, but the vast majority of people would only extend to paying a little extra for their fair trade coffee. Big companies paying extra on bulk mailings of millions of items are year won't fall for it. If royal mail still had a monopoly sure, but sadly we don't. There are numerous competitors already doing it for cheaper and are gaining more and more contracts.

it simply is a case of modernise or die.

[Addy]

Originally Posted by metallideth

Are you seriously trying to apply a biological theory to political decision-making?

It's certainly the way the business world works. Companies that can do the job better than others run the latter out of business.

In fact it's the way the world works - obsolete techniques and practices in every area, from sport to IT to business, will eventually cause their diehard or change-resisting adherents to become inefficient and therefore less successful than those who adapt.

Sentimentality and pigheadedness are not useful weapons in the face of the cold hard fact that the Royal Mail is a business and must adapt and change its practices if it's going to survive. For years it's failed monumentally to do so, so it's do or die time.

Not a pretty scenario but it's the way things are.

[metallideth]

Originally Posted by Addy

It's certainly the way the business world works. Companies that can do the job better than others run the latter out of business.

But when they make friends and fuck up later, they'll get a bailout. Survival of the fittest indeed, and aren't we all just such simply good apes?

Yet the problem isn't obsolescence or not, the problem is the definition of such - currently we're at a stage where the political consensus says that greed is good because the wealth it generates will trickle down to us mere proles. Fat chance, knows anyone with any intelligence. Given half a chance, hyper-capitalism will render us extinct before it renders our public services - which aren't 'businesses', by the way - obsolete.

Or, my post-pub opinion in short - people involved in 'business' can fucking hang and we won't be any worse off.

[Addy]

You show me a world that isn't entirely primitive that has actually done well without business and I'll be very surprised indeed. We need it. "People involved in business can fucking hang" is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in ages, and I've just watched Question Time.

Royal Mail is a buiness by the way, and businesses can be public sector as well you know.

[metallideth]

All well and dandy at the top and in the middle, but how's the bottom looking Addy? My concern isn't efficiency, it's decency. How are we defining 'business' here?

[Addy]

Despite how it looks, I'm not condoning the oppression of the workers, nor am I denying that business do that at an insane rate, nor am I suggesting Royal Mail are anything other than fucking idiots for now deciding to modernise when they're close to the deathbed. Just thought I'd point that out.

Decency is all well and good but practical considerations must be made and refusing to modernise businesses will lead to all the workers having no jobs instead of just a few, or most on lower wages. It's a rough choice and one that must be avoided at all costs, but here I don't think it can be and some degree of pragmatism is ultimately required by the Union.

I'm not sure how we're defining "business" exactly but it's a broad term and you do have to accept that Public Corporations (like the BBC) are businesses just as much as private sector corporations are. Specific to this thread, Royal Mail are certainly a business and by necessity must act accordingly. Pretending they're not one isn't going to do anyone any good.

[metallideth]

Oppression isn't the problem, it's an unfair relation of labour and capital. What are 'practical considerations'? Who benefits? What is 'modernisation'? Who benefits? What is a 'business'? Who benefits? Ad infinitum.

[Addy]

Well for a start, overheads are a practical consideration that must be kept low in extreme economic conditions such as a recession. And sometimes this does mean that labour costs need to be reduced - which is the lesser of two evils if one must be chosen - a few wage cuts or job losses or the entire workforce losing their jobs due to company bankruptcy? Royal Mail are fucked unless they reduce costs - fact.

[metallideth]

Fair enough, but why not start at the top rather than the bottom? People like Crozier, in RM's case, float between City jobs - his last position was at the fucking FA, for pity's sake - as a matter of convenience for themselves rather than anything else. You know as well as I do that top brass do the obligatory 10 years and pick up the pension, whereas the guys in the sorting office do 30 and comes out none the wiser as to whether they'll be able to pay the bills the next year. What sticks in my craw and many others is that these fellas could probably run their game without any interference. Management are getting rewarded for fucking things up.

[Addy]

Adam Crozier should definitely go, management pay does have to be reduced and the notion of rewarding for failure abandoned immediately, I largely agree with your last post.

Whether the folks on the floor could actually run everything with no interference, that may be a tad idealistic though I do see where you're coming from and their expertise definitely needs to be utilised better. Wholesale changes are needed throughout Royal Mail and they should have been made years ago, when it could have propelled the company to better things rather than merely hoping it keeps them alive at all.

As we are looking at "too little too late" territory soon though, some job or wage cuts at a lower level are almost certainly unavoidable to keep things alive, at least in the short term. Due to the cyclical nature of business, when things improved the positions can be replaced, but for now some probably do need to go.