Anti SDL/EDL

[poprock]

Here’s a thing:

There’s a protest being organised against some bad guys and their silly little demonstration.

Some people are really thick though, and want to use that as an excuse to run about acting the big man and bashing a few of the bad guys’ heads.

This is causing lots of other people to disassociate themselves from the protest (which depends on sheer numbers to have an effect) and thus reducing its impact.

[corky]

What's your imaginary line got do with my actions in reality though? I just think it's important to make a stand against Nazi's who are trying to cause community devisions. If it is only the police who stop them, then they could end up looking like victims. If society comes out stands against them it shows that their views and action won't be tollerated.

There is also a less direct protest going on later in the day. Scotland United Anti Racist Rally, http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=157402236381
Both are important.

[poprock]

Originally Posted by corky

I just think it's important to make a stand against Nazi's who are trying to cause community devisions. If it is only the police who stop them, then they could end up looking like victims. If society comes out stands against them it shows that their views and action won't be tollerated.

Two things:

First, standing against them is important. It’s also different to committing fucking crimes of your own. Stand against them, show your disapproval, get in the way, whatever. People going down there with the express desire to start a ruck are Doing It Wrong™ though. Two wrongs don’t make a right, etc.

Second, your logic on that latter part doesn’t stand up. See point B in Potatojunkie’s post above. The Police stand against them, they feel persecuted and legitimised. The Police and the public stand against them, it’s a bigger group, they feel even more so. No getting around that. I refer you to Nick Griffin being on Question Time and the tabloid press printing what amounted to ‘poor little BNP man’ cartoons about it.

[corky]

If it's just the police, they could say that the state apparatus is being used to crush their democratic rights (even though their racist actions are illeagal), but if people from all parts of society who are against racism turn up, not just typical left wingers, it will reinforce the idea that their behaviour is unacceptable.

[djtoast]

just posting this cos i always do. tradition, etc.

Isaac: Has anybody read that nazis are going to march in New Jersey, you know? I read this in the newspaper, we should go down there, get some guys together, you know, get some bricks and baseball bats and really explain things to them.

Man: There was this devastating satirical piece on that on the op-ed page of the Times. It is devastating.

Isaac: Well, well, a satirical piece in the Times is one thing, but bricks and baseball bats really gets right to the point.

Woman: Oh, but really biting satire is always better than physical force.

Isaac: No, physical force is always better with nazis. Cos it's hard to satirize a guy with shiny boots.

i do wonder if the exact opposite of protesting would make just as much sense. completely ignoring them would surely say "you're just a tiny, irrelevant minority not worth bothering about"

[Potatojunkie]

Originally Posted by corky

… if people from all parts of society who are against racism turn up, not just typical left wingers, it will reinforce the idea that their behaviour is unacceptable.

If it were reasonable people we were dealing with, perhaps. As it stands, anyone acting against them is ipso facto a stinking leftie communist.


Making a show of resistance is important, though. Assure the local Muslim community, for instance, that these fucks are in a very small minority.

[corky]

Originally Posted by Potatojunkie

If it were reasonable people we were dealing with, perhaps. As it stands, anyone acting against them is ipso facto a stinking leftie communist.


Making a show of resistance is important, though. Assure the local Muslim community, for instance, that these fucks are in a very small minority.

From the meeting I went to it seems like there is a huge variety of people and groups who are prepared to stand against them, not just Trade Unionists and Socialists. UAF even has Tory supporters.

There's going to be another public meeting on tuesday possibly.

The important thing is not to let these people create community devisions, as if anything this just allows further oppertunity for radical Islam.

[MarkMono]

Originally Posted by djtoast

just posting this cos i always do. tradition, etc.



i do wonder if the exact opposite of protesting would make just as much sense. completely ignoring them would surely say "you're just a tiny, irrelevant minority not worth bothering about"

The problem with that logic is that complacency has done nothing but aid the BNP's growth in recent years.

Shame really, I'm normally all for the lazy man's option.

[Mwezzi]

Originally Posted by djtoast

i do wonder if the exact opposite of protesting would make just as much sense. completely ignoring them would surely say "you're just a tiny, irrelevant minority not worth bothering about"

See, whenever this happens, the only people who vote/march/do anything at all are the ones frothing at the mouth at the extreme ends of the spectrum, who have all the passion and drive to keep going. If they are the most vocal groups, they start to see themselves as representative of more of the population than they are because they only ever hear their own supporters. So they keep going.

On the subject of this march, anyone attacking anyone else gives the opposition to say, 'Look! We weren't doing anything violent and they ATTACKED US! Discrimination! Oppression! WHAT ABOUT OUR FREE SPEECH!' and before you know it, it's Question Time all over again.
They can't go on openly racist marches because of hate crime/hate speech laws. They can just veil themselves as being opposed to 'certain types' and the counter-demonstrators can show them up for that without physically attacking them. The police aren't there to enforce the Government's opinion, they're there to stop prats with 'kick their heads in' attitudes from proceeding.

In conclusion, anyone who think violence solves everything can go die in a fire.

[pANDAS Radio]

Originally Posted by crazydiamond85

fuck off with yer peacefull protest ya tree hugging liberal prick
the only thing these parasites understand is violence, they need to know that they are not welcome on our strets or they'll just keep coming back.

Seriously what would you suggest we do? stand with wee bits of card and say " that's not very nice, you shpould be racist"
fuck all that shite, these cunts need a kicking and I know for a fact I'm not the only person who thinks this

That's 'cos you just as much an idiot as they are. Tell you what, why don't we round up all the racists and put them in camps so we can conduct medical trials on them?

If a bunch of people just stand peacefully, and legally, in front of them then they either have a ruined protest or they start to get rowdy. If they get rowdy then they get picked up by the police and their future protests are less likely to be granted. Racism is best defeated via education, not intolerance. If the anti-S/EDL people lower themselves to violence then, as poprock previously said, it is more likely to discourage peaceful anti-fascist protesters from turning out in future. You probably haven't even considered that they want people to react violently, that way they can act like victims in the press.

[Ultima]

LOL yous will batter nae cunt.

[Charliecharlie1]

Originally Posted by corky

UAF even has Tory supporters.

There's going to be another public meeting on tuesday possibly.

were there UAF representatives at the meeting you went to ,if you have UAF reps at your counter protest your just as bad as the EDL

UAF are to the Labour Party, what the IRA are to Sinn Fein, the paramilitary wing.

Oh by the way, isn't it just possible that the people behind EDL may well be "Agent Provocateurs"?

It's a little strange that the UAF call anyone they disagree with Nazis, yet it is they who aligne themselves with Hamas supporters who would wipe Israel off the map. What a strange world we live in.

Government supports UAF financially, UAF uses violence to intimidate the political opposition. Its what we know in the game as State Sponsored Terrorism.

[The Continental]

If I thought CD85'd actually batter a nazi let alone show up I'd comment. But I don't. The only nazis he'll be damaging at that time on a Saturday morning are the zombies in COD:WAW from his wanking pit.

[corky]

Originally Posted by Charliecharlie1

were there UAF representatives at the meeting you went to ,if you have UAF reps at your counter protest your just as bad as the EDL

UAF are to the Labour Party, what the IRA are to Sinn Fein, the paramilitary wing.

Oh by the way, isn't it just possible that the people behind EDL may well be "Agent Provocateurs"?

It's a little strange that the UAF call anyone they disagree with Nazis, yet it is they who aligne themselves with Hamas supporters who would wipe Israel off the map. What a strange world we live in.

Government supports UAF financially, UAF uses violence to intimidate the political opposition. Its what we know in the game as State Sponsored Terrorism.

There was one UAF rep there, but there were also reps from dozens of other groups as well as lots of independent individuals. I doubt the police will allow violence to kick off, all police leave has been cancelled for that day.

[corky]

Also, David Cameron supports UAF.