Why is it? - Page 10

MarkMono · 16th May 2008, 10:26am

Stereotypes of masculinity certainly are.

A stereotypically manly Scotsman is a fat ginger bloke in a skirt, for instance.

Jushin Liger · 16th May 2008, 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtoast

But for example there's never to my knowledge been trouble associated with any american sports and there's far more people actively supporting them in the the US than there are soccer fans here.
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YouTube - Vancouver Stanley Cup Riot 1

YouTube - Vancouver Stanley Cup Riot 2

YouTube - Newswatch 1986 stanley cup parade +...

YouTube - Montreal Canadiens Hockey Riots

YouTube - The Best Fans in the World (Part 4,...

Showing the Ultras at red Star going at it Football and Basketball grounds.

Watty · 16th May 2008, 10:30am

There were riots in Oakland after they lost the Superbowl in 2003 as well.

endless psych · 16th May 2008, 10:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMono

Stereotypes of masculinity certainly are.

A stereotypically manly Scotsman is a fat ginger bloke in a skirt, for instance.

Aye. But most of everyday human cognition relies on stereotypes and the like to get by so its not suprising that they are prevelant.

If you want to be entirely accurate it should be Western Stereotypes of Masculinty. Western being post-industrialised nations.

I can understand wanting to distance yourself from certain types of stereotypical masucline behaviour but I would contend that social conventions are nefarious in their steadfast refusal to allow us non conformity on any grand scale.

MarkMono · 16th May 2008, 10:33am

The violence and rioting associated with American football is proportionally every bit as bad as the violence associated with Scottish football.

Given the disparity of the sizes of the countries thats actually quite an achievement for Britain, but the point remains.

Quote:

Originally Posted by endless psych

Well aye. But most of everyday human cognition relies on stereotypes and the like to get by so its not suprising that they are prevelant.

If you want to be entirely accurate it should be Western Stereotypes of Masculinty. Western being post-industrialised nations.

Think we've sidestepped into boring pretension, are you going somewhere with this?

endless psych · 16th May 2008, 10:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMono

Think we've sidestepped into boring pretension, are you going somewhere with this?

I was going along the lines of the power of social convention and the like. Apologies if I read the context of your posts wrong but it seemed to me you might have been implying there was a degree of choice in conforming to these things. (Which there maybe but its probably just a choice of choosing ever decreasing circles of less prevelent stereotypes.)

MarkMono · 16th May 2008, 10:41am

Of course there is, I don't adhere to social conventions that I don't agree with*. I can't be the only one, surely?

*Apart from paying tax, which gets lip service.

endless psych · 16th May 2008, 10:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMono

Of course there is, I don't adhere to social conventions that I don't agree with*. I can't be the only one, surely?

I don't think theres much choice in the matter to be honest.

I also think given the right social or situational conditions what you agree or don't agree with would prove to be highly maleable.

AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS · 16th May 2008, 10:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMono

If you don't understand now you never will.
.

Thick as fuck.

I never said that.

I said if you aren't involved, chances are, you won't understand.
Which, some people have remonstrated.

You can get involved, should you be inclined to.

Now, ssh.

MarkMono · 16th May 2008, 10:44am

Why? Despite our basic disagreements on the subject we seem to have posted alot of the same things in this thread.

I am involved, I like the odd game, I just wouldn't call myself a fan. Certainly not what you'd describe as a real fan. Believe it or not, this thread is not exactly the first time I've been told I don't understand football.

I do, its not hard and there is no great mystery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by endless psych

I don't think theres much choice in the matter to be honest.

I also think given the right social or situational conditions what you agree or don't agree with would prove to be highly maleable.

I respectfully disagree, the rights of the individual to assert themselves are present at all levels of our society.

AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS · 16th May 2008, 10:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosco

When's the ignore function back up and running?

Snap.

bikuki · 16th May 2008, 10:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosco

When's the ignore function back up and running?

Totally

The football forum is so love it or hate it - and when you hate it its prevalence in new posts is beyond irritating.

Zippy · 16th May 2008, 10:48am

I'm glad there's some folk who don't like football - not because it brings an even balance, just because they would ruin it a bit.

endless psych · 16th May 2008, 10:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMono

I respectfully disagree, the rights of the individual to assert themselves are present at all levels of our society.

Nay the responsibility.*

Aye I think thats one of the major premises our society is founded upon and cherishes...

but in terms of reality (to go a bit soundbitey) heroism is rare and villany is rife. (In a misquoted Edumund Burke "good men do nothing kinda way).

Or in the majority of cases individuals don't challenge or contest social norms - groups on the other hand...

But aye different viewpoints and all that.

*The more I type the more sarcastic that starts to look. It wasn't intended to be

**djtoast** · 16th May 2008, 10:51am

^ i didn't say trouble never happens in and around american sports, just that i honestly don't believe it's been such an ever-present and widespread part of sport there: with football it seems like an integral part of the set-up, with american fans it's the exception rather than the rule i think.

i may be skewed because i'm basing much of my opinion on talking to my dad, who bemoans the violence in sport here which he never saw there... he went to giants and mets games religiously for fifteen years, but then those fifteen years were a long time ago i suppose.

still, just from personal experience, i couldn't even imagine any trouble at the giants game at wembley (or the american football games I used to go to at Crystal Palace in the 80s!), wheras i don't wanna leave the house when the old firm are playing.