Why is it? - Page 11

MarkMono · 16th May 2008, 10:52am

Dallas and Glasgow should be twinned on that basis.

Syxx · 16th May 2008, 10:54am

True story - I lived in Dallas and Philadelphia for 6 months each time when i was a kid. Eat that.

bears about the same importance as any of the sheer fucking pedantry that these guys are droning out

endless psych · 16th May 2008, 10:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtoast

^ i didn't say trouble never happens in and around american sports, just that i honestly don't believe it's been such an ever-present and widespread part of sport there: with football it seems like an integral part of the set-up, with american fans it's the exception rather than the rule i think.

I've only ever seen violence directly related to football on the TV or in the press. I've never seen it in the flesh. Perhaps on a large scale sports violence doesn't seem as prevelent - but lets face it - its not over here either.

The majority of sports related violence is far away from the glare of the media and the general public these days. Be it away from the pitches at organised fights on matchday or someone taking umberage to you wearing your teams colours down the local boozer. America likely didn't have a hooligan popular culture (the books, the films, the media attention and such) but it doesn't mean they don't have sports hooligans.

**djtoast** · 16th May 2008, 11:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by endless psych

I've only ever seen violence directly related to football on the TV or in the press. I've never seen it in the flesh.

I work in the city centre almost every night, I've seen plenty

MarkMono · 16th May 2008, 11:04am

Not being cheeky, but did you have a point?

endless psych · 16th May 2008, 11:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtoast

I work in the city centre almost every night, I've seen plenty

And you don't work in the city centre of a major American city with a popular sports team and/or rivalry do you.

This I'm afraid is a case of yourself making a non-point Toast. It happens more often then you might think (you making non-points that is) :P

Baron Samedi · 16th May 2008, 11:25am

Crowd trouble is rife among American sport - the most recent major incident that springs to mind being the Red Sox fans rioting after the World Series in 2007. The difference seems (to me) to be that in the U.S. it gets reported as over exuberance or similar for some reason as opposed to anything malicious when there's actually very little difference.

**djtoast** · 16th May 2008, 11:41am

Quote:

This I'm afraid is a case of yourself making a non-point Toast. It happens more often then you might think (you making non-points that is) :P

no, you're just misunderstanding it keir, willfully or otherwise.

um...

okay, there's nobody alive who's been present at every sporting event since the dawn of man with paper and pencil to record every fan of every game's actions.

my point, and sorry if it doens't meet your requirements for rigour and completeness, is simply to address this remark:

Quote:

You could also say that about many sports.
it's just not as publicised as football violence or trouble, because (lo & behold) it's not followed on a scale that football is.
I.E. You are likely to find more trouble makers in a group of 100,000 people then you are 100 people.

and say that there's more to it than that. eg among the 100,000 delgates at the International Needlpoint Championships there'll typically be fewer men punching each other than among the 100 people in a city centre pub on old firm days, ie reducing the problem to one of scale and probability is a fallacy.

and there are sports that are followed more widely than UK soccer (ie American ones, where the population is higher) so it makes no sense to say that trouble surrounding those sports would be less publicised due to lack of interest in them.

*sigh*

and just shut up, there's way more violence in soccer than in American sports, there just is. *raspberry*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Samedi

Crowd trouble is rife among American sport - the most recent major incident that springs to mind being the Red Sox fans rioting after the World Series in 2007. The difference seems (to me) to be that in the U.S. it gets reported as over exuberance or similar for some reason as opposed to anything malicious when there's actually very little difference.

youtube makes you a liar

YouTube - 2007 Red Sox Riot - Banana suit...

MarkMono · 16th May 2008, 11:44am

Makes you a liar too, which is admirably even-handed.

Its interesting that peoples experiences of the same city can be so different though. The amount of people who say they've never seen any football-related violence yet live in Glasgow boggles the mind. I know I slag Toast occasionally for being utterly out of touch with average Glaswegian street life due to his consistently odd hours (and strange choices of club to DJ) but I just don't see how its possible to avoid football violence completely in Glasgow.

Large tracts of my life have been running battles with old firm fans who have generally picked a fight with me because I looked/look a bit funny. Living upstairs from the Rosevale was a hoot and a half too.

Baron Samedi · 16th May 2008, 11:47am

An interesting read about U.S. media coverage of crowd trouble in sports I've found -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2005...sport.football

Quote:

Originally Posted by That article

That's the wonder of American sports. There are fistfights, showers of beer (and faeces, canned dog food and coins), portable toilets kicked over with opposition fans inside them, knifings, deafening verbal abuse, full-scale riots, cars set alight, disabled fans stripped and their clothing destroyed, players puking because they've breathed in the pepper spray used by police to dissuade two sets of fans from kicking the sweet bejesus out of each other - and not a single hooligan in sight. Amazing when you think about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtoast

youtube makes you a liar

I can't really watch that properly as at work so why does it make me a liar? Usually I'd say using a single youtube clip to try and prove or disprove anything makes you an idiot.

Syxx · 16th May 2008, 11:47am

Stop Fucking Meandering About Stuff With No Actual Point.

poprock · 16th May 2008, 11:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syxx

Stop Fucking Meandering About Stuff With No Actual Point.

I thought that’s what online forums were for?

Syxx · 16th May 2008, 11:53am

There's even less point to this than most other stuff. Hell, half of the argument is "What's your point?"

MarkMono · 16th May 2008, 11:55am

And your point is?

**djtoast** · 16th May 2008, 11:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Samedi

I can't really watch that properly as at work so why does it make me a liar? Usually I'd say using a single youtube clip to try and prove or disprove anything makes you an idiot.

I'd say taking my comment at face value makes you a bigger one

It's a video of a man dressed as a banana jumping from a lamp-post, as the crowd looks on and cheers, illustrating that the Red Sox "riot" was in fact more of a happy, carnival sort of an affair.