Why is it? - Page 13

Baron Samedi · 16th May 2008, 12:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtoast

well, here's the problem: neither of us were there, who do we believe?

I believe both to be accurate representations of the evening's events.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtoast

okay, obviously i don't believe it was a church picnic, but saying that the american media, deliberately or not, suppress the truth about the seriousness of the problem - and often, reaching back to the 70s and 80s for examples of how bad the problem is - doens't quite paint a fair portrait either.

I don't think I suggested they did - just that things seem to be reported in a different way for some reason. Personally, I think it's a historical thing - U.K. football fans have been demonised around the world since the 70's so whenever it rears its head again it's jumped on.

Jaemi · 16th May 2008, 1:01pm

I love that it's only idiot's that support football passionately.
Then, whenever we need something explained, we can leave upto those who have no involvement what-so-ever thus must have much bigger brains.

MarkMono · 16th May 2008, 1:04pm

Word on that.

endless psych · 16th May 2008, 2:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtoast

no, you're just misunderstanding it keir, willfully or otherwise.

um...

okay, there's nobody alive who's been present at every sporting event since the dawn of man with paper and pencil to record every fan of every game's actions.

Well you didn't address anything in the post that was of any importance rather you highlighed the reason why you might think that football related violence was higher in this country.

In case you haven't guessed its because you live in this country and have witnessed it here and possibly because you don't live in America and haven't witnessed it there...

Which is kinda important given my main point was, you know, about the importance the different media on either side of the Atlantic report or even pay attention to these things. Which is the only way myself or you, short of regular travel to sporting events, sporting bars and the like in America would have any actual personal experience of.

But yadda yadda yadda.

Seriously its missing the point on the scale of harm and deaf folk again...

poprock · 16th May 2008, 3:02pm

What? Who’s harming deaf folk?

UncleDave · 16th May 2008, 3:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS

Bear in mind (this is why there might be crossed wires?) that I have at no point put forward an arguement consisting of "Following Football means something and other forms of entertainment don't".

Ah, it must have been someone else I quoted originally then. Someone posted a teary-eyed nostalgic wee story about football and then said, it "means something." I dont think it was unreasonable to assume he was saying that football fandom had more meaning than other comparable things. Togetherness, belonging etc like others say, I guess, but other social gatherings for fun can be every bit as good in that respect, and everyone who isnt mentally unbalanced has some interests that involve meeting up with other human beings. I was just pointing out that this tone and attitude from some people that watching football was particularly meaningful is baloney. And it seems you werent saying that, so I guess it is crossed wires right enough.

Cheers.

MarkMono · 16th May 2008, 3:47pm

Ach, he was waxing a bit lyrical, so what.

Jaemi · 16th May 2008, 3:53pm

Lets no forget, this is just a tiny minority of football fans.

**djtoast** · 16th May 2008, 4:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by endless psych

Well you didn't address anything in the post that was of any importance rather you highlighed the reason why you might think that football related violence was higher in this country.

In case you haven't guessed its because you live in this country and have witnessed it here and possibly because you don't live in America and haven't witnessed it there...

Which is kinda important given my main point was, you know, about the importance the different media on either side of the Atlantic report or even pay attention to these things. Which is the only way myself or you, short of regular travel to sporting events, sporting bars and the like in America would have any actual personal experience of.

But yadda yadda yadda.

Seriously its missing the point on the scale of harm and deaf folk again...

my father's spent roughly equal amounts of time living in america and in britain, being a sports fan in both... and working for probably the most respected news/media company there is, in both countries (and thus generally pretty well informed)... so in respect of those aspects of my opinion that are based on second-hand wisdom, the source is fairly sturdy.

MarkMono · 16th May 2008, 4:19pm

Your father is certainly entitled to his opinion, but there is a lot of evidence (Above and beyond the videos in this thread.) against it.

I said myself, I'm shocked that anyone could live in Glasgow without seeing any scenes of football-related violence. I can't imagine Glasgow is the only place in the world where this logic applies.

AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS · 17th May 2008, 1:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMono

Sorry, not sure what you mean.

The ridiculous comparison is down to Holly I'm afraid.

It's not the comparison, it was that you'd actually hold a grudge against Noddy.
I mean, what the fuck.

MarkMono · 17th May 2008, 1:33pm

I thought I did the best with the analogy I was given, having to compare Noddy/cartoons to old firm supporters/football.

It holds up.

AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS · 17th May 2008, 1:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleDave

Togetherness, belonging etc like others say, I guess, but other social gatherings for fun can be every bit as good in that respect, and everyone who isnt mentally unbalanced has some interests that involve meeting up with other human beings. I was just pointing out that this tone and attitude from some people that watching football was particularly meaningful is baloney. And it seems you werent saying that, so I guess it is crossed wires right enough.

Cheers.

This is what I'm saying though - it is 'particularly' meaningful to some people.

MarkMono · 17th May 2008, 1:38pm

Watching Lost is particularly meaningful to some people, its a no-brainer that something as popular as football would be.

¡Punk! · 22nd May 2008, 4:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMono

A sense of pride, unity and togetherness?

Also the illusion of achievement, but that one would be argued

If you go to a game in Italy that "illusion" of achievement from the fans would be shot down. The head ultras don't watch the game but conduct the crowd because they know that a crowd makes a difference. You, as a musician, should know that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtoast

I work in the city centre almost every night, I've seen plenty

Of all the violence in the city centre how much is based on football? How much is over a spilt pint, a girl or just a guy looking for a ruck? How much of it is between people drinking? Face it of all the things that cause violence in the city centre I would say football is down on the list.

There is a brilliant article from When Saturday Comes from about '92 (when the media's view of football and it's fans was at it's lowest and on the cusp of recovering from Heysel, Hillsborough, The Den, etc.). It's gettin' put up when I finish work.