Organising a gig? Avoid this band!

[Ghostsuit]

Originally Posted by AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS

lol @ 5 bands x £120 to cover "expenses" for the 13th Note (a free 120 capacity venue)

For promo (13th note provide it free on their website, and in their window, a few hundred flyers (next to no money), and then theres the fact that the bands are doing the promo for you (selling tickets/advertising to their best friends to come to YOUR show)

the only oppertunity you are offering here is bands to play to their mates (who arent interested in any of the other bands playing) thus, not getting any exposure or any other bullshit spin you are putting on it.


If theres such a queue of bands happy to work with you guys, then why do you charge bands money if they can't make the show (for whatever reason) 2 weeks prior to your show when you could easily just ask another band to play? Let me guess the hassle and the "running costs" of asking one of the many bands that love playing shows for you to fill in?

Lollercoaster.
Fuck this thread

black people steal cars.

Did you actually read there Myspace?

Theres no CHARGE for 13th Note gigs jsut a 50/50 split.

[Ghostsuit]

Originally Posted by monkey star

Im pretty sure there have been altnation gigs in the past

There were and they were Pay to Play in the most part but we tried to keep it as cheap as possible to cover costs. If I could find a good venue willing to work on a we take the door they take the bar month then I'd be interested in doing it as I'd rather not do Pay to Play not because I'm against it but because I think it would benefit the crowd.

Still theres alot of other factors that would need to be done but with both club nights and now we have an active PR it's more viable to put these nights on. So we are interested in the idea .

[monkey star]

Well Classic GRand has a stage, pre party?

[Joe Spinebuster]

Originally Posted by monkey star

Im pretty sure there have been altnation gigs in the past

I'm pretty sure there were Altnation club nights before Bamboo as well, but they never took off because Forbes never put as much effort into it before.
But then again, if anyone thinks Forbes put so much effort into making this incarnation of the AltNation Club a success SOLELY "to provide us with an alternative", then I think you'd be sadly mistaken and would wager that the opportunity to make some money from may just be the driving factor in this endavour.

Just because I think Forbes is in a good position to offer something different in the way of Glasgow gigs promotion doesn't mean he WANTS to, sadly. Nor should he, if he isn't interested in it. Somehow, I can't imagine Forbes is reading this thread, pumping his fist in the air and screaming "FUCK YEAH, SOMETHING'S GOT TO CHANGE IN THIS STINKIN' CITY". It'd be good if he was, though, who knows eh!
This is by no means a knock on Forbes, but he can make money from AltNation now and that's exactly what his mindset seems to be. A mindset that is absolutely commendable in everything else his doing just now, but from the sounds of it maybe one that most folk would like kept out of gig promotion.

[Zippy]

If it was a 5ive reunion tour he'd be all about putting it on.

[AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS]

Originally Posted by Ghostsuit

There were and they were Pay to Play in the most part but we tried to keep it as cheap as possible to cover costs. .

This is pure pish.
"Cover costs" - its to cover your arse, not your costs.

Why should you expect bands to take risks but the promoter has next to no risks at all?

I've already got a full time job.
If your job is a promoter, then do your job and dont get bands to do it.

You can get to fuck.

[Rosco]

Banned

[Ghostsuit]

Originally Posted by monkey star

Well Classic GRand has a stage, pre party?

Yes it does . Why you think I'm asking about these things .

Originally Posted by Joe Spinebuster

I'm pretty sure there were Altnation club nights before Bamboo as well, but they never took off because Forbes never put as much effort into it before.
But then again, if anyone thinks Forbes put so much effort into making this incarnation of the AltNation Club a success SOLELY "to provide us with an alternative", then I think you'd be sadly mistaken and would wager that the opportunity to make some money from may just be the driving factor in this endavour.

Just because I think Forbes is in a good position to offer something different in the way of Glasgow gigs promotion doesn't mean he WANTS to, sadly. Nor should he, if he isn't interested in it. Somehow, I can't imagine Forbes is reading this thread, pumping his fist in the air and screaming "FUCK YEAH, SOMETHING'S GOT TO CHANGE IN THIS STINKIN' CITY". It'd be good if he was, though, who knows eh!
This is by no means a knock on Forbes, but he can make money from AltNation now and that's exactly what his mindset seems to be. A mindset that is absolutely commendable in everything else his doing just now, but from the sounds of it maybe one that most folk would like kept out of gig promotion.

Damn straight I've ran AN at more or less a loss for 7 years while doing other stuff and building it up. It's only the last year I decided I'd rather get a pay check out of doing something I love than designing site for other things I don't love.

I can't imaging anything better than getting paid to do something I enjoy. At the same time however I don't want to just make money, thats never been the intention behind AN and to be honest if it became the solo factor that would be shite. I do want teh scene to be successful and if I can help that I will. So in a way I'm going YAS!!!!

Originally Posted by AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS

This is pure pish.
"Cover costs" - its to cover your arse, not your costs.

Why should you expect bands to take risks but the promoter has next to no risks at all?

I've already got a full time job.
If your job is a promoter, then do your job and dont get bands to do it.

You can get to fuck.

The reason we charge was to limit potential losses and the fee only covered the Hall hire nothing else We never put on loads of bands, we did put on some touring bands and we tried to make it as good as we could and stuck up posters, flyers and adverts on here.

At the time I thought it was the best approach, now I'd probably try and avoid it as much as possible but I'd still ask bands to sell tickets though not have a minimum anyway it's not just bands that have a learning curve, so you can get to fuck .

Originally Posted by Rosco

Banned

Nah he has an opinion and in hindsite I can see his point but don't 100% agree with it, there needs to be a middle ground I think as Marc and that were saying.

[Joe Spinebuster]

Well, hang on, I didn't mean to bring the heat down on Forbes here. He is showing some interest in gig promotion here, and maybe even doing it "THE RIGHT WAY", but I imagine that not being part of or really knowing much about the Glasgow local music scene means that the only sytem he has ever known has been pay-to-play. Alright, so Forbes ran some pay-to-play gigs about 4 or 5 years back, but slowly he is learning to know better. Perhaps he wants to learn, and perhaps this thread can be his education? If Forbes is genuinely interested in offering an alternative to pay-to-play, it could be a pretty neat idea to stick with him, offer our suggestions and see how it turns out.

[¡Punk!]

I don't remember the AN gigs being pay-to-play..

[Ghostsuit]

Originally Posted by ¡Punk!

I don't remember the AN gigs being pay-to-play..

In all honesty we did say sell x tickets but I don't think I ever forced anyone to cough up if they hadn't managed to sell the number. Though we never gave the bands anything back over the 4 gigs at the QMU we never made any real money but it was a learning experience. We also did none pay to play at Barfly.

[PunyHumanPromo]

As stated, £120 for a 13th Note show would be ridiculous. As a general rule it's always worth reading something before passing comment on it.

A lot of people have a knee-jerk reaction when it comes to gigs, but when you look at the reality of the situation things become a little more clear.

On the shows where we ask for a guarantee we have either four or five bands playing half hour sets. This is dictated by time constraints, i.e.. the venue's curfew when they need to kick us out to get their club night set up. This generates between £480 and £600 in income. Income does not equal profits.

A promoter has certain direct costs incurred in any event. These might include venue hire, gear hire, promo materials, ticket printing, booking reps, gig reps/stage managers. Direct costs on the shows where we ask this guarantee are usually in the region of £420. We try to stick to this, sometimes it gets pushed up a little, e.g. if you want to run a 14+ gig your venue hire fee will typically go up.

This immediately drops the "profit" from the night to £180. That's assuming we can get five bands on the bill.

Promoters also have indirect costs to consider. These are the kind of things that any business incurs including travel expenses, electricity, toner for the photocopier, insurances, postage, stationary, accountant's fees, business banking fees, etc. etc. etc. As a business grows these costs only increase. All of these eat into profits from shows.

If anyone can find a business model where you don't have to pay direct or indirect costs, I'd advise you to exploit it to its full potential. You're obviously very clever indeed.

If anyone thinks that promoters don't work hard, I suggest you offer your services as an employee to us, or Twisted Ape, or CPL, or DF. It will soon become apparent that promoting shows is a labour intensive, time consuming and goddamn expensive way to (hopefully) make any money. If you don't have passion, commitment and drive then I guarantee you'll get burned out or lose an awful lot of money quicker than you thought was possible. Pull a couple of 36 hour working days like I did for Sunday night's show and tell me if promoters do "fuck all."

[AWESOMEUS MAXIMUS]

Originally Posted by Ghostsuit

The reason we charge was to limit potential losses and the fee only covered the Hall hire nothing else We never put on loads of bands, we did put on some touring bands and we tried to make it as good as we could and stuck up posters, flyers and adverts on here.

At the time I thought it was the best approach, now I'd probably try and avoid it as much as possible but I'd still ask bands to sell tickets though not have a minimum anyway it's not just bands that have a learning curve, so you can get to fuck .

Of course, everyone learns, and that's fair enough.

I know fine well why promoters charge, I'm not thick as pig shit believe it or not.
I just don't agree with it.

You pay for the hall, you book the bands, you do the promotion, you make the money.
If being a promoter is your job & you lose money, its a learning curve.
you either didnt promote the show well, you hired too big a venue for size of bands/fan base/you were a bit ambitious/any number of factors.
you learn from that.

You don't rip the cock out of bands by saying "if you pull out 2 weeks before you owe me over £100 for costs" (which probably incur making a few 20p phone calls/myspace bulletins to the vast amount of bands you have contacts for, being a promotional company and all, to ask someone to play the show....then ask that band to sell yet more tickets and make more money).

Its a rip off.

Fuck this company up it's retarded ass.
It offers no bands ANY oppertunity except the oppertunity to be ripped off.

Look at this logically - this company offers bands, an oppertunity to "play a gig" to people who apparently care about their music.

1. Most bands, as Joe says, that want or are interested in these shows are bands which don't fit into a niche of some of the DIY promoters, musically, & don't know the first thing about putting on a show - i.e. new, unheard of, bands.
This means, noone, apart from their dear own family and friends will give a rats ass if "joe bloggs band" is playing "metal" on a rainy tuesday night in the Soundhaus, with 4 other bands, no-one knows or cares about.

This renders "promotion" pretty much null and fucking void.
the biggest "promotion" is done by the guys (who probably work 9-5, 5 days) who beg their friends to come and watch them, and force them to buy a ticket.

These friends come to the show, watch the band play, and promotly leave/don't give a fuck about any other band playing.

How is that any sort of oppertunity for a band?

[monkey star]

Gives Gary Arc good buisness.

[PunyHumanPromo]

We try to address that in a number of ways.

We keep bands of similar genres together on shows. We don't book mixed bills with metal, classic rock, emo and hardcore bands on one mish-mash of a bill. It only takes one band that someone's not into for them to leave a show.

We try to keep schedules tight and finish ahead of curfew so people don't have to leave to get trains, buses etc.

We also try to mix bands up a little bit so that they aren't playing on the same bill all the time. It helps to have a different crowd hearing your stuff.

We also put the band who have shifted the most tickets fairly far up the bill, ensuring that their fans see whoever's on before them.

You seem to have a pretty pessimistic view. I know that some people just come out for one band and aren't bothered about the rest. It's not something I understand, but it happens. That being said, there are people who are genuinely interested in hearing something new. You reach one of these people, they tell their mates about the awesome band they saw the other night, they check you out next time. Believe it or not, it happens!