A writer for the drownedinsound.com webzine is writing a critique on the Scottish music scene, her main beef with the recent Scottish Executive commissioned report being that no-one really said anything to critise anyone else. Critisism eh? Shouldn't be a problem! A fool and his words are after all, easily parted
Andy would like to point out that these are not the views of the band as a whole and in fact, they'd probably disagree with him on many/ all points as often is the case. If you agree / disagree with any of the points below then why not vent your spleen on the msgboard.
1.How did your band form?
I never wanted to start a band. In the beginning I was happy writing songs and playing them for myself. But the need grew to play them in front of people so that I could get things off my chest. So at Dundee uni I tried to find others who felt the same way about music as I do. After a few false starts we settled on a line-up and a band was formed. So its all my fault really.
2. Did your university have anything to do with the formation of MTS? Did you or any of the band study music?
We all met at uni although none of us were studying music. The uni has a band society where people can meet up and bands like Snow Patrol (who started out as "Snug") and Laeto have originated from it. The Society itself doesn't do that much for bands but it does provide the initial meeting place which IMO is crucial. Unlike the music scenes in Glasgow or Edinburgh, there's very little oxygen in the Dundee scene. That is,
(a) there's few places for new bands to play where they can realistically build an audience;
(b) because there isn't the same amount of proper gigs, local support slots with touring bands are thin on the ground. Kids (14-18) locally don't get to see good bands play live as often so there's less opportunity to be inspired to pick up a guitar. And Kerrang/ MTV-culture in the UK has indoctrinated a lot of them into thinking that unless you're in the mag and on MTV2 then you're not worth investigating.
Punk rock shows around Europe carry way more respect and there's no one media source that informs you who's "The Most Exciting Band In The Universe" this week.
In Europe the likes of Garrison are just as well known (if not better known) than say, Hundred Reasons who sell the majority of their records in the UK. Yet the recent cancellation of Garrison's Dundee show was due to poor advance tickets sales because the kids haven't heard of them. And they're one of the best live bands you can see. Meanwhile, Hundred Reasons' European Tour with Garrison gets cancelled because Sony pull HR's tour support money (ie. the cost of the tour itself). Kerrang/ MTV-culture in the UK is not doing anyone any favours and more kids need to start getting on the net and thinking for themselves. I think the signs are there that it's already starting to happen slowly but not everyone can afford to get online;
(c) so you have to really love music to want to be in a band in Dundee whether it's infectious pop like 'Boss Star' or extreme-o-core noise like 'JesusElephantGod'. There just isn't the same availability of places to play where you could impress your mates if you're so inclined. Less oxygen = less crap bands. Comfort does not breed creativity and so the bands that do exist, overall, tend to be really good. Why the likes of 'One Inch Volcano', and 'Spyamp' haven't been signed is beyond me. For example, there's an experimental metal band here called 'Kaddish' who arguably, are one of the best metal bands in the UK.
3. What are your musical influences - are you influenced by any other Scottish bands?
5 band members mean we have a lot of different influences. We argue all the time about everything - its just our way.
Martin (our drummer) loves punk rock. He drums in two other bands, a hc band called Engage and a Rammones-Screeching Weasel style band called Ritalins. Les (bassist) listens to bands like Sonic Youth, Guns n Roses and QOTSA. Chris and Ant listen to anything that's interesting guitar-wise and rocks although Ant's been getting into underground UK hip-hop of late. Chris is open-minded about pop-sensibility while Ant demands punky rock action.
Personally, I want MTS to be accessible with a melodic edge. I like music that sounds honest regardless of genre. Bands I listen to a lot would include Mclusky, Pollyanna, Jetplane Landing, Q and not U, and Aereogramme. I really like the vocal sound on the Snow Patrol records and I'm a bit of a John Denver fan too. You can cringe all you like but it comes down to whether you, in the words of Bill Hicks "Play From Your Fucking Heart". I'd have more respect for an honest songwriter like John Denver than a band who do what their told, who wear the right clothes, have the right haircuts, and have the right "current" sound to shift units.
Fuck that. Lets get Napalm Death on daytime radio instead. Just don't sell me this M.O.R. shite as post-hardcore. Don't insult my intelligence. I've heard their records being played as background music while queuing in my local bank. You can't taint everyone with the same brush though, you just have to ignore manufactured media hype and, as Bill would say, remember how to perceive correctly. In the 90's Pearl Jam were every critic's favourite target, they stopped making videos and a decade later they're still here making records. Let's see who's about in ten year's time.
4. Are you aware of any government funding that's available to help unsigned bands in your area?
Yes the Scottish Arts Council provide funding for established bands to write and rehearse new material. They're usually quite friendly and helpful when you contact them.
5. If yes, have you taken advantage of it? - if not, why not?
If no, would you if you had the chance?
The grants don't apply to students so up until recently we were ineligible for them. I had intended to apply before the last November deadline but didn't get round to it as we were touring and I had to organise our single release. We may well apply in the future. There's a lot of red-tape involved with applying so it's the kind of thing you need to organise far in advance.
It's a bit of a Catch 22 actually: new bands might be turned down for it due to lack of profile in Scotland / lack of their own label infrastructure, while more established bands like ourselves would rather concentrate on doing our own thing with the possibility of finding a label so that (a) it would ease the financial burden of self-releases; (b) so there's a better infrastructure and organisation behind our record releases and touring plans, rather than spending time chasing public money we may never get. Which has ties about how it can be spent. We can afford to rehearse ourselves. We'd rather have money to buy a reliable van for touring regularly but you won't get a grant for that!
6. Why did you feel the need to set up Pet Piranha to release your records?
We set up Pet Piranha Records so that we'd have our own label name for our self-released records. We wanted to make records, not 'unsigned' demos aimed at record companies. We wanted to document what we were doing and used what little money we had to achieve this. A label name is just that, merely a name. But we used it as our starting point to establish our own label infrastructure: we organise the recording (Substation Studio), artwork (help from friends), manufacturing (Hiltongrove), distribution (Cargo), press (Work Hard PR), touring (initially self-booked) and propaganda (Pet Piranha) for the releases. We aim to sell enough records to cover costs which are modest so we don't need detailed accounts and I have a legal background so I can read the jargon if the need occurs. It's a tiny operation but it's fun and we love what we do.
Also, It's grossly unfair IMO to say that music is good based on whether it's either 'signed' or 'unsigned', it's never as black and white as that. Yes, there's a lot of substandard unsigned music out there, but on the other hand labels are looking for a commercial product that has an image and is marketable. If you don't fit into that category and the head(s) of the label doesn't agree with the A&R then a band doesn't get signed. And unheard of bands are often regarded as inferior, which links into the Kerrang/ MTV2 culture that I mentioned exists in the UK. Great music comes in all shapes and sizes whether it's a 'signed' commercial entity or not. One of the coolest record sleeves I've ever seen was The Microphones' Mount Eerie cd sleeve on K records. One of the most inventive songs I've ever heard was on an Earworm Compilation cd and was recorded at home using a 4 track. There's a generation of kids in the UK who discard such gems because they don't see it on MTV2 or in Kerrang / NME. And it's equally worrying when you see excellent webzines starting to morph in the likes of NME.com and covering more and more bigger "signed" bands who can afford to buy/ negotiate press from mainstream sources with less about totally independent music that's under the radar.
7. Was there any public funding available to help you establish the label?
The S.A.C. does have funding available and many Glasgow-based labels do benefit from it. Again, there's a huge amount of red-tape involved however and I'm way too impatient to wait on what may or may not happen. We just went ahead and did it ourselves.
8. Should the government really get involved with the arts? You mentioned the recent report commissioned by the Scottish Executive. As an artist, do you have any criticisms of it?
If the Scottish Executive want to help then they can and should do so through people who know what the score is. Whether that's through the S.A.C., BBC Scotland, music development officers at local council level, established labels, venues, or a newly established body to voice our concerns, etc - it needs to be determined so that a plan of action can be drawn up with the goal of improving and sustaining the ability of Scottish bands and solo artists to be successful.
The definition of this is important. More bands reaching the status and sales of Travis is not what I would have in mind, although could perhaps result indirectly as a consequence.
The infrastructure must be in place so as to encourage a greater quality of live and recorded music. Recording studios make money, so do venues (generally), so do Scottish companies involved in a band's artwork, record manufacturing, advertising, web-hosting, etc. And yet in my own band we've always struggled financially. New Scottish bands playing original music are penalised through having to play gigs for little or no money with only the occasional prospect of covering their costs - which must be seen as equally important as the promoter's - if new talent is to be encouraged to emerge.
A promoter may lose money on the night but should, in theory, make it back from bigger, touring bands so that it balances out. If he's continuously losing money then the promoter needs to seriously look at what he's doing. It's quite likely that some smaller promoters in the UK are being bullied into putting on signed touring bands with low profiles for unrealistic fees. This happens because otherwise, the promoter runs the risk that the booking agency will ignore them when the bigger, more profitable bands are booking tours and these gigs often create enough money to cover some or all of the losses of other nights. But if you're losing money a lot you can't afford to guarantee reasonable payment, if any, for new bands. This issue needs to be addressed. So too does the issue of established venues and promoters who regularly run at a profit using these same arguments, when in fact a lot of money is made through bar-takings and the band usually will never see a penny of this.
From a Scottish band's point of view, if a band was able to make more (or any) money from gigging in Scotland then this might encourage new bands to hone their live performances so that money earned could go towards paying for rehearsal, recording time and all the other costs of being in a band.
Of course, its great to play music simply because you love it. But it would be nice to lose less money in doing so. I don't think that's unreasonable.
At the risk of sounding arrogant, it's easy for bands who aren't ready yet to get gigs. And why would people pay £5 on average to watch a few unheard of local bands play when on the last occasion it proved to be unimpressive. Some promoters damage the local scene by putting on gigs where a fledgling band must sell tickets to their mates in order to play. Short-term gain for the promoter who takes home the money IF it runs at a profit. But long-term damage for the local scene: the casual punter who's not a friend of the band is unimpressed and decides local music is not worth paying to see that often/ at all. By playing live at a name venue the band believe it has reached a stage of ability which has still to be grasped. As a result, the venue may find it increasingly difficult to attract people to gigs of lesser known bands. I'm also aware of the flip-side, and that promoters often lose money on gigs due to touring band's unreasonable demands and venues struggle to stay open due to continued losses. It's a tough balancing act.
But what if it was a bit harder to get gigs locally? And the rewards were greater. Where bands capable of delivering a memorable live performance were paid enough to keep them encouraged. Would people pay £5 upwards regularly to watch bands if they believed they'd be of a certain standard regardless of genre? They might. But it would require a degree of change. It's easy to rip young bands off who are eager for fame and local notoriety. It happens all the time. Attitudes of some bands and promoters would have to change. And even if it did, more inventive ways of wooing the public back in would need to be found. The issue of Kerrang / MTV2 culture would still have to be addressed.
Whenever money is involved there's usually only so much of it to go around and claims of favouritism and bias will always be made. But its not for the politician to say what we need, it is for the people and importantly, the artists to say what is needed. The recent Scottish music industry report (as commissioned by the Executive) made a lot of good points and illuminated a range of issues that need to be addressed. I want to see fairness succeed over those with their own agendas. When you see an organisation like NEMIS (New Music In Scotland) which is supposed to help and promote new music being now headed by DF Concerts it arguably, loses any degree of independence from the machine and simply becomes another tool at their disposal, albeit a relatively minor one, and continues the monopoly over the Scottish scene.
There needs to be some kind of representation for bands by people who are respected by their peers. People like Dave McGeechan (Promoter for King Tuts / DF), Vic Galloway (DJ for BBC Radio Scotland / R1), Jim Gellatly (DJ for Beat106FM), Stuart McHugh (editor of IsThisMusic? Magazine/ jockrock webzine), Gary Marshall (music writer / author / musician),
are just a few of the people that spring to mind. We need a panel appointed on behalf of bands & solo artists that can talk to the SAC & the Executive about what is needed so as to benefit everyone, what money is required and how it would be put to best use to tackle the issues mentioned.
Right now the people with the least money in this equation - the bands - have the least power, influence and say when it comes to getting the Scottish Executive's ear about what we need to do to encourage new talent to start, continue and succeed (again depending on your own personal definition of success).
9. Would you ever think it necessary to relocate to London in order to further your career?
I don't know. This was one of the main points that the report raised, namely how do we encourage Scottish bands to stay in Scotland? At the moment MTS make music because we love it despite the amount of money it costs us. If we had the finances to sign and promote other bands and had a bigger label funding Pet Piranha it could be very interesting. Whether that would require relocation is debatable. Ideally, it wouldn't and being based in Scotland could be used as an advantage rather than an obstacle. I've been part of the scene here for quite a while and I reckon I could make a success of the label if given the finances, so if there's any bigger labels out there who want a Scottish-equivalent to Fierce Panda or Booby Trap they should give me a call!
10. How do you think the Scottish music industry differs to the industry elsewhere in the UK?
I think you can draw parallels between the Scottish and Welsh scenes. They're both guilty of being too cliquey at times and the press tend to fawn over the signed established bands, often at the expense of new bands. They generally don't have any real power or influence compared to London and so some of those who do, wield it like Godzilla with a light-sabre.
The Scottish scene does differ though in a few ways. Because of the success of Chemikal Underground and bands (that I really like) such as Idlewild, Mogwai and Snow Patrol, there's a strong art-rock influence. Usually an indie-pop band would have to go to London to achieve their goals, as Travis has done. The exception to this would be The Grim Northern Social who signed to One Little Indian. The former Music Development Officer for Glasgow, Tam Coyle, who picked them to play at the In The City industry showcase event, championed them continuously. They would be an exception to the rule so it's possible albeit unlikely for such a band to achieve their goals without relocation.
Unfortunately the general art-rock scene/ atmosphere also turns certain people (not necessarily in bands) into indie-fascists. They have the ear, or are directly part of, the Scottish music industry and quite often straight punk rock or music that isn't seen as really innovative or challenging is looked down upon. Worse still, fantastic art-rock influenced music is completely ignored because they aren't friendly with the right people.
There's nothing wrong with 3 chord punk, there's a place for everything, whether it's Mogwai, Dwarves, or dare I say it, Travis.
Things have improved since Biffy Clyro signed to Beggars but it can still be fairly narrow-minded at times. I think the Vic & Gill Radio1 Evening Session show has done some good in that respect. I do wonder though that had Nirvana or Radiohead been Scottish, and been around in the late 90's, if they'd have gotten a deal unless they'd made the right friends, kissed the right asses and worked more of an art-rock element into their early sound. Not forgetting also that the mere suggestion that you might consider making a living out of music as opposed to doing it solely because you love it, is practically suicidal on Scotland's most infamous music messageboard at
www.jockrock.org
11. What are the advantages of operating from Scotland?
Its arguably a lot easier for a band to establish themselves and create a buzz in Scotland (especially if you have previous band experience to work from) because compared to England: there's less bands, fewer established venues, and if there's a really hot new band just appeared then word travels fast. Elgin's "Fickle Public" (ex-purple munkie) have already done a Radio1 session, opened for Alkaline Trio at the Barrowlands, and I'm told have signed a singles deal with XL Recordings - in less than 12 months. That's pretty cool! New bands only have four main cities to play (Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee) and there are some brilliant fanzines / DIY promoters across Scotland. There's a vibrant Scottish underground scene that you can tap into if you're a new band looking for info, other bands, etc.
12. What are the disadvantages?
It's trickier to network and find out about other bands around the UK, especially if you're based in Dundee due to the lack of touring bands that play here. We'd be lost without the Internet and we make a point of trying to meet other bands when they do play Dundee whether it's Reuben, or Kids Near Water, etc.
13. Has being based in Scotland helped or hindered your career thus far?
(the press, for example, can be guilty of pigeonholing Scottish acts).
Despite the expense, we've had a lot of fun being in a band, playing around Scotland and more recently around the UK. We have a lot of friends here but generally anything we've achieved has been through our own dedication and hard work of gigging and networking.
We never had a management company hand us things on a plate (or have been told what to wear onstage), we didn't have anyone opening doors for us, we never relied on having famous friends in other bands to get an endorsement by the Scottish Music Industry. We've had to kick every door open ourselves, we've fought tooth and nail for every bit of press, every decent support slot, etc. so that we could get our music out there to more people and try to have fun in doing so. Being based in Scotland helped in that there are people who run zines who put on DIY shows who support what we're about. Local press and certain promoters have always been good to us also.
For every hindrance that happens there's always another gig, another occasion for a great night and an opportunity to exercise our demons. That dogged determination is sometimes misinterpreted, that we're anti-industry, or unreasonable, when we're not. I love a good, intelligent 3 minute guitar-pop song if its done well like say, Yeah Yeah Yeahs.
But when you've had to fight for everything, you just get into the habit of questioning people's motives. It's very tough to establish yourself in a place as small as Scotland without certain people liking your band. So if they don't, you have to work very hard to make any progress.
14. Does it worry you that the press construct new scenes and that you might be lumped in with one?
Like the emo / post-whatever scene. They're just buzz-words the corporate media use to sell new bands. Like Kerrang's "The Most Exciting Band In The Universe" (this week) issue. It's just hype. If record companies want kids to buy their latest offering then they could start by not over-hyping it. That way when emo bands don't meet sales expectations they don't end up in crisis talks trying to avoid getting dropped after one album. The NME's "scene with no name" was kind of silly too but if it gets bands like Mclusky and Ikara Colt press that that's ok by me. If Idlewild started out now I'm sure they'd be labelled post-hardcore too.
15. I know you're not Scottish, but is national identity important to the rest of the band?
Tricky to say. I moved around when I was a kid so I don't have strong ties to anywhere although I am fond of Co. Donegal in Ireland. Chris, Les and Martin are Scottish. Ant considers himself British having grown up in a few places in England and Northern Ireland before going to Dundee. I always say that MTS is a Scottish band. We're based here, it's where we've watched other bands and learned to be better at what we do. We're comfortable with that identity because Scotland has produced some great bands regardless of how well they're known. When we get in touch with zines or labels in other countries they're usually interested in hearing our music because we're Scottish and that's encouraging. You could argue that being of Scottish/ Irish descent means that it's a strong part of our heritage to make music, or comedy, to express ourselves in that way.
16. Do you think it's possible to characterise a Scottish sound?
Possibly, in the way it presents itself to the listener. In all the best Scottish music in my opinion, is played in a totally uncompromising fashion whether its gentle, quiet-core reflections or abrasive post-punk, etc. So there's nothing fake, contrived, or calculated about it. And if there's a twisted sense of humour there too then it's near-perfect. Macrocosmica are probably the best example of a Scottish band doing post-hardcore the Scottish way. Not the American way. Maybe that's a flaw with MTS, that we're not individual enough yet. But we have time on our side and it's inspiring to see bands like Macrocosmica play live. We have nothing to fear from watching great bands, we can only learn from them. And Dundee's lucky in that we've had bands like Oxes play here because members of Laeto invited them and promoted the show.
17. Do you think that you're Scotland-based is apparent in your music?
It's probably not apparent enough, if at all. I'm influenced by Scottish bands and I do a lot of the song-writing in the band. We've been told by zines and labels in Europe that we're very British sounding, albeit with a subpop / dischord influence. They class all of the UK as British so to them we sound like a British band with American influences as well as Scottish. I know in my head what I want MTS to sound like and when the next album comes out in Spring I hope it'll give people a better idea.
18. How do you view the current situation for Scottish bands? Is it a good time to be a band in scotland? Is the industry healthy?
If you look at my description of the Scottish scene previously, those are the challenges and obstacles that are facing new bands. It largely depends on your goals and whether you play music because you love it or because you'd like to become a rock star and how far you'll compromise to achieve that aim. The climate has changed somewhat of late. Alternative rock bands who would've been looked down on have now all gone emo / post-hardcore and some of them are incorporating jazz influences etc. So now from a scene point of view it's just easier to criticize any bands looking for success, those perceived as lacking pure artistic intention. Which is rubbish.
19. Would you say that the Scottish industry has become more independent over recent years, especially since devolution?
The industry here has always been fiercely independent. Devolution, to date, has made no difference. The scene still has the same attitudes. Bands will continue to play music because they either love it or want to become rock stars.
Independent / DIY promoters and zines will continue to give support and encouragement to the bands that are perceived as not being cool enough to get that from the Scottish music industry.
Devolution may result in Glasgow based labels or bodies getting more money but that remains to be seen. If more money became available I fear it would strengthen the Glasgow music scene at the expense of the rest of Scotland, namely because it feels it IS the Scottish music scene. But that's a whole different argument!
