[Guitars] Scales and Modes

Funkmaster D · 6th June 2006, 9:06pm

I'm trying to learn about scales and modes, so I wrote a bit on my blog about 'em:

http://www.cubo.co.uk/2006/06/scales_and_modes.html

Anyone here who knows more than I do (most of you, I suspect) fancy reading over that and correcting me where I'm wrong, or people who know less than me (probably not many) let me know if bits need explaining? I think it could maybe do with some diagrams, but my brain's fucked tonight...

I'm hopefully gonna continue with stuff to do with music theory generally, writing up bits as I try to learn them. I find explaining things helps me understand them (by showing what I don't understand myself, mostly!), so any constructive criticism is most welcome, i.e. don't just tell me it's shite

TragicHero · 7th June 2006, 8:46pm

hey thats really cool!
You should keep that blog going!

For a lot of modes there are two ways of thinking about what notes are in them,
For example Dorian mode is always the scale from a tone down. Eg. Dorian in C(m) has the same notes as a scale of Bbmajor, but you obviously use C as your home note. Sometimes thinking of it that way confuses matters, so it's down to you whether you prefer to learn it as a scale on it's own, but especially for piano it was good to think
mode x is one tone back
mode y is two tones back
mode z is three tones back etc.

(Sorry I'd be more specific x, y and z but I don't have my notes here and bogblast if I remember all modes off by heart)

It's kl to remember modes by the kind of voicing they give eg. ooooh this one is spooky (phrygian?), or that one sounds adventurous (mixolydian?) etc

Funkmaster D · 7th June 2006, 9:38pm

Yeah, that first way was what confused me most when trying to learn this stuff first time around. Just for some reason that way gave me a total mental block! Doing them as separate beasts seems to work better in my tiny mind

And the different sounds they have is indeed a good way to recognise them. I'll probably talk about that when I look at putting them over chords. God knows when I'll have time to do that, work's stupidly busy, but thanks for the reply. I'll post when the next bit arrives

anglarna · 7th June 2006, 10:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicHero

hey thats really cool!
You should keep that blog going!

For a lot of modes there are two ways of thinking about what notes are in them,
For example Dorian mode is always the scale from a tone down. Eg. Dorian in C(m) has the same notes as a scale of Bbmajor, but you obviously use C as your home note. Sometimes thinking of it that way confuses matters, so it's down to you whether you prefer to learn it as a scale on it's own, but especially for piano it was good to think
mode x is one tone back
mode y is two tones back
mode z is three tones back etc.

(Sorry I'd be more specific x, y and z but I don't have my notes here and bogblast if I remember all modes off by heart)

It's kl to remember modes by the kind of voicing they give eg. ooooh this one is spooky (phrygian?), or that one sounds adventurous (mixolydian?) etc

I'm not really sure what you mean. Maybe I'm confused? This method definitely throws me.

In my head D dorian is made up of the notes: D E F G A B C and is closer Fmajor than Bb Major. Is this what you mean?

The second mode of a C Melodic Minor scale is made up of the notes: D Eb F G A B C, which I suppose is, kind of, close to Bb Major.

I think the biggest importance when learning about modes is to learn them in the context of real music. D Dorian don't mean shit unless it's observed in the context of a harmonic framework. Good work setting the basis Funkmaster_D!

Campestral · 11th June 2006, 2:23am

time is a healer.

in between writing notes.

i want a drum kit metronome

it's impossible to stop dancing when you mix scales and casual smilies

anglarna · 11th June 2006, 7:07am

Campestral is a charmer.

Campestral · 14th June 2006, 1:41am

i meant i love dancing between scales even though i don't know them kinda like meeting strange people as long as there is a drum beat it's easy to keep in time with new ideas a good rythmn takes care of any mood

chef_brian · 14th June 2006, 1:42am

NOODLES!!!

the way to become a good guitarist is through NOODLES

Campestral · 14th June 2006, 1:49am

noodles are hard to keep in tune you made me do that i can't believe i swapped them about

Campestral · 14th June 2006, 2:02am

i forgot to mention. that is a cool site you made there. nice introduction to different sounds and ideas.

i like the way someone else mentioned different moods. some scales are cool for experiencing them.

i'd like it if you posted some chord structures that sound normal with the major scale and then throw in a lydian or another scale maybe record a basic progression and show the difference cause i can't do it but i want to know how

Campestral · 12th July 2008, 9:51pm

erm....

where did that cool site go? the link isn't working

i want to ask a mode question, that's a mode not a mod, the mods know nu fink.

see if i'm playing just a simple chord progression using two chords a major to g major and i'm playing a d major scale over them, what mode am i in? i was thinking it was the d major mode but that didn't make sense then i thought it the 4th mode in a major which is d lydian? but darn it it's not the a major scale if it's got g major in it so it must be the d major scale?

joerattray · 12th July 2008, 11:59pm

Its just the ionian mode because D major scale works fine over the chords G major and A major. They are chords VI and V of D major, respectively. Alternatively, the modes of the G and A chords are Lydian and Mixolydian.

J.M · 13th July 2008, 7:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicHero

For a lot of modes there are two ways of thinking about what notes are in them,

I would agree, although its important then to memorise the order modes appear:

Ionian Dorian Phrygian Lydian Mixolydian Aeolian Locrian

Now if you want A Phrygian you simply think ok so A is the third note of which major scale? Which would be F Major, then play F Major starting and ending on an A and you have A phrygian.

for A Aeolian, what major scale has A as the 6th note? C Major so play a C major starting and ending on A and you have Aeolian (or natural minor)

the other way takes more effort and requires learning the formula and patterns!

Hows that?

Campestral · 13th July 2008, 8:56pm

see here, the problem i have isn't working out the notes of the modes cause that's just playing the major scale moving up the frets. what's bugging me is how to get the flavour of the modes into chord progressions.

like say for instance see the phrygian that's a minor mode right? but it only sounds phrygiany if the root chord is a major like b phrygian doesn't sound too spanish when the b chord is a minor but if it's changed to b major then it sounds ok with e minor. but b major isn't in the g major scale yet that's where the b phrygian comes from.

get what i mean how i'm puzzled?

so if i want to get a lydian flavour say out of the b major and e minor chords what major scale would i use as a base? can you even get a lydian flavour using a major chord as the root or do modal flavours all have major and minor roots other than the chords they are related to in the major scale?

lol that make sense aye?

J.M · 13th July 2008, 9:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Campestral

like say for instance see the phrygian that's a minor mode right?

Yeah Phrygian is Minor, altho if you want the phrygian sound over a major chord make the third major and youl have phyrgian domininant! Its the b2 that gives phrygian its sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Campestral

but b major isn't in the g major scale yet that's where the b phrygian comes from.

B phrygian comes from G major not from B major!

Try recording a loop of Amin to E min , play A aeolian then E Phrygian should give you a spanish sound