measuring dynamics

[Elfaba]

sorry for being a bit dense if there's a really obvious answer to this, but see how you can get electric metronomes and guitar tuners and such - I was wondering if you could get such a thing as a wee electronic thing that measures dynamics?

I teach saxophone and one of my pupils is progressing really well and is by far and away the most competent and best all round player I have taught

his sound quality, attention to articulation, rhythm, phrasing etc etc is all perfect and he legit frightens me at how good he is at sight reading

literally his only flaw is that he seems really nervous when he is playing (he is quite a shy and nervous boy anyway), in that he's always very hard to get him to play anything about mp-mf range and it frustrates the hell out of me, because he is so good and he should be proud and confident enough to show it off. As i have said his sound quality is really impressive.

i take a very amicable approach with my pupils and dont like to seem forceful or give them a hard time and I've asserted the point I've been trying to make about this problem in a number of different ways, from discussing it with him to playing alongside him and taking the stance of "i dont want to hear me play above you" - and that worked, but i cant always play alongside him

so i was wondering if you could get something (not too expensive) to measure his volumes to help him bring this on on his own?

I'm not up on technical equipment at all like that, as I'm more used to dealing with acoustic instruments - maybe some guitar folk might know?

again sorry if i've neglected a really obvious answer, just wondering if anyone could offer any help?

[the curiousity]

Originally Posted by Elfaba

sorry for being a bit dense if there's a really obvious answer to this, but see how you can get electric metronomes and guitar tuners and such - I was wondering if you could get such a thing as a wee electronic thing that measures dynamics?

I teach saxophone and one of my pupils is progressing really well and is by far and away the most competent and best all round player I have taught

his sound quality, attention to articulation, rhythm, phrasing etc etc is all perfect and he legit frightens me at how good he is at sight reading

literally his only flaw is that he seems really nervous when he is playing (he is quite a shy and nervous boy anyway), in that he's always very hard to get him to play anything about mp-mf range and it frustrates the hell out of me, because he is so good and he should be proud and confident enough to show it off. As i have said his sound quality is really impressive.

i take a very amicable approach with my pupils and dont like to seem forceful or give them a hard time and I've asserted the point I've been trying to make about this problem in a number of different ways, from discussing it with him to playing alongside him and taking the stance of "i dont want to hear me play above you" - and that worked, but i cant always play alongside him

so i was wondering if you could get something (not too expensive) to measure his volumes to help him bring this on on his own?

I'm not up on technical equipment at all like that, as I'm more used to dealing with acoustic instruments - maybe some guitar folk might know?

again sorry if i've neglected a really obvious answer, just wondering if anyone could offer any help?

surely you could just record him playing, then show him on a recording program (cool edit possibly, something like that) what it looks like, indicating points where he's supposed to be Mf-f, and comparing that with points where the dynamics indicate p...?

instant feedback and a graphical way of showing him where his weakness lies...

[Kenny Everett]

Or just punch him?

[J.M]

Originally Posted by Kenny Everett

Or just punch him?

why lessons with you never worked is beyond me!


how bout hooking a mic up to a small desk and setting a level by playing yourself! Demonstrate examples of p mp mf f and show him on the meter! then when he plays he can watch it?

seems to me if you could get him to play a couple of shows/recitals that he'd soon limber up

[Elfaba]

cheers thats a great idea

never thought of that, but that is cracking actually - I have the stuff to do that anyways

yeah I've tried to get him involved in different bands etc too to try and boost his confidence but hes really shy about playing - i dunno if he's worried he'll be bullied or what for it? but he's very reluctant to do it and i dont want to be too pushy, because i can see how much he enjoys playing and i dont wanna take the fun out of it and the confidence and trust out of the pupil/teacher rapport that we have

I have had him into the studio in uni a couple of times before to let him record stuff to send to his gran (who doesnt keep very well and lives overseas) and he's always been enthusiastic about that and enjoyed that

but I shall give that a bash - that's not a half bad idea at all

cheers!

[Kenny Everett]

JM is dead right, I think it's the transition from bedroom player to proper musician that he needs to make. Experience and confidence is one thing you can't teach alas!

[Elfaba]

yeppers im trying to persuade him and coax him into playing in front of people but hes very very hard to persuade

he is so good too

that's what makes it so annoying

what's more irritating is that he plays the horn and drums as well and he's happy to play them in school in bands and for his exams and he's not nearly as advanced in either of those instruments as he is in his sax

he is cracking at improvisation too - really really good at it...gives me a run for my money!

i have not as talented pupils (well in fairness they just dont practice as hard as he does - they are probably equally as talented but just dont bother lol) who are quite happy to belt it out in front of anyone and their aunt too, and its really encouraging and you can see the benefits that they get as a player from that and how it helps them to progress.

i might speak to his mum about it - kinda feel shite for doing that, but dunno how to iron that wee problem out

[Kenny Everett]

What age is he? Maybe he's just not ready for it, or needs a little more time to build confidence?

[Elfaba]

hes been playing for about 4-5 years - but is between grade 5 and 6 level - he is very very good and works very hard

hes just going on 15

i dunno

I was really paranoid for ages it was summit to do with me and the way i was teaching him (maybe it is?) but i always take a very positive approach to teaching and always give lots of good feedback and praise when theyve done something well, which in his case is very often

i dont like going in there all holier than thou and authoritarian and critique their performances by ripping them to shreds - i dont think that approach works as well with music and it can sure as hell take the fun out of it.

his mum is very complimentary and comments on how well hes progressing with his sax in comparison with his other instruments and always says how she likes my approach to teaching and how Paul enjoys the lessons too

just kinda feeling a wee bit like I'm failing him at the moment by not being able to encourage him to increase the volume and his confidence.

[Kenny Everett]

why not take him to see some bands that have excellent sax players? Maybe whip up some enthusiasm for the instrument, that might be what he needs to give him some drive to perform?

[djbarry]

I had the same problem when I was learning Clarinet/Saxophone...I'll get back to you tomorrow on this.

[Elfaba]

Originally Posted by Kenny Everett

why not take him to see some bands that have excellent sax players? Maybe whip up some enthusiasm for the instrument, that might be what he needs to give him some drive to perform?

i give him cds all the time with cool sax stuff on it and have even tried gettin ghim to transcribe them so he can play them like them (and he's really good with music theory and transcribing too btw lol) and thats worked a wee bit but hes still not pushing the barriers of loud at all

i might see about some live stuff - that might be an idea, because his mum is really into taking him to see stuff like that (out of genuine enthusiasm and interest as opposed to being a pushy mum at least from what i can see) so I'll keep my eyes peeled for stuff coming up

Originally Posted by djbarry

I had the same problem when I was learning Clarinet/Saxophone...I'll get back to you tomorrow on this.

i played sax then went self taught on the clarinet

i liked the clarinet but much preferred my sax - but its cool being able to play both!

[djtoast]

Are there excercies you could give him in a really high register that might encourage him to blow a bit, just to be able to get the notes?

Get him to go stand in a field where no-one can hear him and get him to play as loud as he can!

Make him wear earplugs and then play!

Get him to practice on a building site with jack-hammers.

Put a balloon on the bell and see how high he get get it to go when he starts playing.

Okay, maybe these aren't very practical solutions. I've actually got a pretty similar problem with my piano playing; I didn't have lessons for about ten years so I'm much worse than I used to be, which makes me kinda clam up sometimes for fear of playing wrong notes, and just kinda scratch at the keys - my teacher patiently encourages me not to and points out when it says ff and i'm playing mp... but yeah, while it's not a physical thing, it's a confidence thing, finding ways to force yourself to do the physical things needed to produce more sound kinda teach you to break through that I think... so my teacher has me play scales pp then ff, stuff like that. Choice of repertoire helps too, I'm learning one piece where there's a section you just have to belt out.

Like your pupil I odn't have any such problem playing out when I'm playing drums/precussion

But yeah, I think simple encouragement will be most of what actually helps in the end, just may take a while.

[TheFallenAngel]

Give him some drugs and teach him some Floyd.