Classical guitar

[Treetop Flyer]

I am trying to learn some Grade 6 pieces and I've come to the conclusion the hardest thing about the classical technique is the barre chord. I swear I'm breaking out in a sweat trying to get my index finger to hold down all the strings, I'll probably be able to Bruce Lee a ping pong ball after I get it pumped up.

So I was just wondering what other people thought about the classical technique and what they love/hate.

The obvious things to love are the tunes, there are so many wonderful songs written for it. It's great to hear the range of the guitar when playing tunes written by experts. The only downside of that can be that one loses ones ability to improvise due to not having the time to improvise.

I would love to be able to sight read, at the moment it takes me three days to commit a two page piece of music to memory.

Still though, it's all good fun as the guitar always is, even Chopin said;

"there is no sweeter sound than the guitar"

[djtoast]

I am trying to learn some Grade 6 pieces and I've come to the conclusion the hardest thing about the classical technique is the barre chord. I swear I'm breaking out in a sweat trying to get my index finger to hold down all the strings

This is the brick wall i ran into when i spent about a week trying to learn guitar. Everyone tells me perseverance is the key, but I'm yet to break on through to the other side of being able to do 'em.

The obvious things to love are the tunes, there are so many wonderful songs written for it. It's great to hear the range of the guitar when playing tunes written by experts.

I'm learning a piece on the piano at the moment - Reverie by Debussy - which it turns out is also played on the guitar often. Absolutely beautiful.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejegBjg_Gh0"]YouTube - Groningen Guitar Duo - Reverie - Claude Debussy[/ame]

I would love to be able to sight read, at the moment it takes me three days to commit a two page piece of music to memory.

Same, but more like three months Practice and perseverance are definitely the key here!

[Treetop Flyer]

Yeah but you're a multi instumentalist so you can bounce of that brick wall into an open space When it's your only instrument it's like you're digging the tunnel the Chinese built in that Simon Shchama History of America show, I'll probably die still trying.

I like that tune you posted there but have to say when I was listening to it (and you probably did this on purpose smart arse) I couldn't help hearing how it would sound on the piano and I imagine all the deep bass chords would ring out more true on a piano. The guitar is a more middle range instrument and definitely not suited to piano comositions. Very good players though, I was laughing at the barre chords the guy was doing, sliding up and down the neck without taking his index finger off it lol he makes it look so easy. The other guy playing the unnatural harmonics that was excellent too, another extremely difficult thing to do and he did it like he was plucking normal notes.

Is it Debussy who does Claire De Lune? I remember seeing that once tabbed for the guitar and I tried the first couple of bars and realised this is too big a tune for the guitar. The first few chords of Elgar's Cello concerto are cool on the guitar though! Maybe that's cause it's strings.

How does it take you three months to learn a piece of music? I thought you were classically trained? Or are you a classically trained drummer?

Yeah practise and perserverance God damn them! But alas, life demands it, no tree hugging for us hippies. It is rewarding though some days when you find yourself on form and all the things you never thought you'd be able to play you can feel happening like miniature evolution

[PAPA LAZEROU]

a good excercise for improving your barre chords is to play a g barre and then move up the fretboard one fret at a time whilst holding the shape until you cant reach any further then work your way back down...tedious sounding i know but it does help. Its like most excercises...they bore the life out you but they do manage to help.

[Treetop Flyer]

I was just going to post about barre chords. Also I was going to say what a nightmare it is if you don't practice for two weeks. It's like going back two months!

Well I was looking at a tune by Tarrega called Grand Vals which is pronounced Bals funnily enough and you bloody well need them to play some of it. It's like 4 movements (?) and the third bit that starts on bar 51 is a really good exercise for barre chords. The reason it's good is because it's musical so it doesn't become mundane like most exercises as you said Papa. Ok it does become a bit mundane because it's hard to play but you know what I mean. It's quite funky, I mean it sounds cool even with a few mistakes. I would post the excerpt but I don't have a scanner. I checked to see if I had it on the computer as I downloaded a huge amount of classical stuff. I'm a bit peeved cause I seen a Tarrega arrangement called Claro de Luna and I got a bit excited thinking it translated as Claire de Lune in Spanish but it's blooming Moonlight Sonata. The thing is I've just learnt that from a Japanese manuscript I found online and now I'm thinking I bet Tarrega's arrangement is much better. But it took me 4 weeks to learn

[Treetop Flyer]

What ever happened to Guitarmanchris? I was hoping he'd give me some tips on classical guitar. Get him back in here!

I heard a lassie playing some Debussy on piano the other day and wow, don't remember name of the tune but it was wonderful, I think every key on the piano was used, it must have the greatest range of atmospheres out of all the instruments, twas quite compelling.

The guitar obviously, has the best atmospheres

[Treetop Flyer]

Gigs at RSAMD

Big Guitar Weekend Friday 13th thru Sunday 15th November. I don't know what happened but this has been priced for the elite. I went to the first one and I'm sure it was £25 after student discount. It's now priced at £165 and I can't see an option for any discount. That's more expensive than Glastonbury. It's quite an interesting event but I don't understand the price hike. Saying that, there is usually an option to pay for individual events, though I dread to think how much they will be. I'd love to see Pavel Steidl again (14th 7.30pm), he is incredible. Don't know what Xu Bao (13th 7.30pm) or Yvonne Lynn (14th 9.30pm) are like.

There is another gig at the RSAMD on the 6th November (£10 8pm) featuring a guy called Neil Wilson who will be playing both classical and world music on the guitar.

On Monday 16th November 1pm - (£?) Royal Scottish Academy Song Studio - Villa-Lobos 50th Anniversary Concert In a concert marking the 50th anniversary of the death of Heiter Villa-Lobos, we take advantage of having two fine Brazilian singers on our opera programme, baritones Felipe Oliveira and Michel de Souza, to share their affinity with their countryman’s music. The programme will also include some Villa-Lobos music for guitar, and the beautiful Bachianas brasileiras

On the 27th November at 1pm (£?) there is a gig called Island Tapes featuring Celtic guitar and Gaelic song in a live soundtrack for silent black and white Scottish archive films. Sounds promising

Friday 2nd October 1pm (£?) Tommy Smith and Royal Scottish Academy Jazz - Full Jazz Band with guitarist Kevin McKenzie

I didn't make any guitar gigs at the RSAMD last year so will try to have a gander this year

[TheFallenAngel]

Stop bein a pussy and practice.
Barre chords are a doddle.

Now we know Campestral's real identity.

I am trying to learn some Grade 6 pieces and I've come to the conclusion the hardest thing about the classical technique is the barre chord. I swear I'm breaking out in a sweat trying to get my index finger to hold down all the strings, I'll probably be able to Bruce Lee a ping pong ball after I get it pumped up.

So I was just wondering what other people thought about the classical technique and what they love/hate.

The obvious things to love are the tunes, there are so many wonderful songs written for it. It's great to hear the range of the guitar when playing tunes written by experts. The only downside of that can be that one loses ones ability to improvise due to not having the time to improvise.

I would love to be able to sight read, at the moment it takes me three days to commit a two page piece of music to memory.

Still though, it's all good fun as the guitar always is, even Chopin said;

"there is no sweeter sound than the guitar"

[Posh]

Now we know Campestral's real identity.

LOL, aye, breaking news that.

Had no idea Sherlock Holmes even posted on the forum.

[Treetop Flyer]

Barre chords might be easy on your puny electric 42mm nut and 9 gauge strings but I've got a dreadnought acoustic with 12 gauge strings and wide fretboard. And classical barre chords aren't just F Major and Minor shapes, you have to be able to barre and stretch your other fingers to play melody lines. Maybe it's the strings as 12s also destroy my fingertips so I might change down to 11 gauge but I imagine the sound won't be as full

[guitarmankris]

Yeah i'm here lol. Was away at the weekend there, hence not commenting in this thread.

First of all - djtoast and Reverie - yip nice piece. Very easy as well. Especially if you understand basic jazz chords (9ths/13ths etc) and the 6/9 chord. It's easy to 'see' this piece in terms of chords i.e. the very first chord is just a Bb 6/9, played the 'French' way i.e. no 5th (btw as i'm sure you'll know, the 6/9 chord is simply the pentatonic major scale). I don't know what level your playing is at, but you should try L'isle Joyeuse. It's a great piece. I remember bashing through it (badly lol) at a masterclass when I was about 17 lol.

RE classical guitar - i'd say that if technique is an issue then you will be less likely to concentrate on what you should be concentrating on i.e. the actual sound you are creating. If a piece takes you months to learn, then it's probably too difficult for you. By all means use sections of such a piece to help work up technique, but try not to use an actual piece of music as an exercise, or simply as a way of improving technique.

Try playing pieces that you can play perfectly after sight-reading them 2 or 3 times at the most. This may mean spending a year playing only grade 1 pieces, but that's no bad thing (if this follows, in 8 years time you should be sight-reading grade 8). Buy as many easy books as you can and bash through them.

Good classical guitarists can learn a piece without a guitar in their hand, purely by how they approach the score.

Schenkerian analysis is useful when it comes to learning a piece. But there are numerous ways of learning a piece, and it's usually a combination of ways that works best.


PS check out Leo Brouwer's 'Estudios Sencillos'. Nice short little pieces that sound great.

And if you're brave, try the big boys - the Villa Lobos etudes (no.2 will keep you busy for a while


PPS in relative terms, grade 8 is still pretty basic. Most pieces at this level are sight-readable by accomplished guitarists.

PPPS go hear Neil if you get a chance. And don't give him cheek - he's an ex-boxer lol Tell him I said hi.

[TheFallenAngel]

Barre chords might be easy on your puny electric 42mm nut and 9 gauge strings but I've got a dreadnought acoustic with 12 gauge strings and wide fretboard. And classical barre chords aren't just F Major and Minor shapes, you have to be able to barre and stretch your other fingers to play melody lines. Maybe it's the strings as 12s also destroy my fingertips so I might change down to 11 gauge but I imagine the sound won't be as full

You don't have to lecture me - I knew exactly what I was talking about.

[Posh]

You don't have to lecture me - I knew exactly what I was talking about.

You solved the Lindbergh case yet?

[chrismulbass]

Yeah i'm here lol. Was away at the weekend there, hence not commenting in this thread.

First of all - djtoast and Reverie - yip nice piece. Very easy as well. Especially if you understand basic jazz chords (9ths/13ths etc) and the 6/9 chord. It's easy to 'see' this piece in terms of chords i.e. the very first chord is just a Bb 6/9, played the 'French' way i.e. no 5th (btw as i'm sure you'll know, the 6/9 chord is simply the pentatonic major scale). I don't know what level your playing is at, but you should try L'isle Joyeuse. It's a great piece. I remember bashing through it (badly lol) at a masterclass when I was about 17 lol.

RE classical guitar - i'd say that if technique is an issue then you will be less likely to concentrate on what you should be concentrating on i.e. the actual sound you are creating. If a piece takes you months to learn, then it's probably too difficult for you. By all means use sections of such a piece to help work up technique, but try not to use an actual piece of music as an exercise, or simply as a way of improving technique.

Try playing pieces that you can play perfectly after sight-reading them 2 or 3 times at the most. This may mean spending a year playing only grade 1 pieces, but that's no bad thing (if this follows, in 8 years time you should be sight-reading grade 8). Buy as many easy books as you can and bash through them.

Good classical guitarists can learn a piece without a guitar in their hand, purely by how they approach the score.

Schenkerian analysis is useful when it comes to learning a piece. But there are numerous ways of learning a piece, and it's usually a combination of ways that works best.


PS check out Leo Brouwer's 'Estudios Sencillos'. Nice short little pieces that sound great.

And if you're brave, try the big boys - the Villa Lobos etudes (no.2 will keep you busy for a while


PPS in relative terms, grade 8 is still pretty basic. Most pieces at this level are sight-readable by accomplished guitarists.

PPPS go hear Neil if you get a chance. And don't give him cheek - he's an ex-boxer lol Tell him I said hi.

I would agree with this thread, however, take is easy, don't beat yourself up about it. Take your time and enjoy.

[Treetop Flyer]

Cheers for the reply guitarmankris, though I'm not as serious about it as that. I just like learning classical tunes for pleasure, they're great when you're bored and can't make anything up. I tried looking for the sheet music for L'isle Joyeuse but all I can see is the piano sheet music. Where on earth would I ever find the guitar sheet music :uhoh:

This is one of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard, try Schenkerian analysis lol I must sound really really intelligent in print. I had a read of it on Wikipedia and it was some giggle trying to digest each sentence. I don't think I'm made of the right stufe. Villa Lobos No.2, is that the arpeggio study? I learnt that a while ago, it's not bad for warming up

On the other hand maybe I sound like a nutjob, do you really think I go to classical gigs and start giving the performers grief? I have thought about it mind during quiet bits just for a laugh but Glasgow's too small a town. Talking about boxers, I think one would need the discipline of a boxer to become anywhere near concert standard on any classical instrument. I heard Yehudi Menuhin getting interviewed and he said he feel his technique wasn't up to scratch if he even missed one days practise. Apparently Steidl does warm up excercises for 5 hours before going on stage lol.

I might check out Leo Brouwer's 'Estudios Sencillos', it would be good to have musical sounding excercises.

What were you doing at a masterclass at the age of 17? Where you part of the Juniors at RSAMD? Who was it that held the masterclass? Do you actually learn much from them considering the small amount of time you get?

BTW do you have a favourite guitar piece that you like playing live?