Help - University withdrew me from course

[mcscoty]

Hello.

I have a quick question that I would appreciate some help with if you would be so kind, my girlfriend and I are totally devastated about what has happened to her.

My girlfriend has just had her place at University withdrawn after the University allowing her to attend for 2 months in the knowledge that she has a fiscal fine on her for shoplifting(first and last offence). She informed the University by phone and by email when she was offered her place, however the University say they have no record of the email (we do have proof of her contacting the Uni via a telephone bill), despite this she also informed them on enrolment day and was allowed to attend for 2 months before withdrawing her place. The reason the University are using to withdraw her place is that she did not disclose the offence to them when she had her interview and on the declaration of criminal offences form. She did not disclose the offence at interview because she had not been in receipt of the letter outlining the outcome of the case at the time of interview, surely she would be prejudicing herself if she made any statement at the time as it is possible no charges were brought against her for various reasons, eg first offence, the shop not proceeding with charges etc.

Please help, we are desperate for something to use to defend herself. The University kicked her out and refused her any right of appeal. I believe that as they allowed her to attend for 2 months, apparently waiting on registration to the SSSC and was informed that this was the only problem she may have, that this was implied admission on the course and she should be given the same rights as any other student, ie the right of appeal, the right to be represented etc.

Can they use this as a justifiable reason, even though they allowed her to attend for 2 months (she was on the class register), and told her the only issue they had would be if the SSSC would allow her to be registered. We contacted the SSSC on Friday last week and they informed us they had told the university that they had no issue with my girlfriend being registered as she had not broken any conduct rules (the uni advised the sssc to put her application to the conduct committee). The only thing the SSSC were waiting on was Disclosure coming back with nothing other than the fiscal fine on it. Disclosure said that they were in the process of confirming the shoplifting fine from the court and police station and as she had already had an enhanced disclosure done the previous year they were nearly complete and should only be a matter of 2 weeks.

It appears to me on the face of it that the University was hoping that she would not be allowed to be registered, and this would be a reason not to allow her to enrol, however the SSSC have confirmed that she would be allowed to register as she did not break any conduct rules, that this lead on to the university going back on what it had told my girlfriend and revoked her place due to a technicality that she was not in a position to admit or deny at the time because she was not in receipt of the fiscal fine.

This has all been carried out in my view by the senior lecturer of the course who is determined my girlfriend will not get on the course due to some personality issue. I believe she is not happy that we defended my girlfriend against false accusations made by her to the SSSC (which they have accepted) and that is the reason why they have changed their mind at this late stage. This is all done from a social worker who is meant to be in the care sector. I realise that this is just my opinion, however it is hard not to think like this given the facts.


Any help you could offer we would be most desperately grateful.

David.

[Charlie Parker]

guess she shouldn't have shoplifted, you're fucked getting any sort of care work with a conviction for something

[LesMTS]

I got done for shoplifting ages ago and my uni didn't give a shit.
What university is it?

[Charlie Parker]

is a fiscal fine something that would flag on a disclosure?

[LesMTS]

Originally Posted by Charlie Parker

is a fiscal fine something that would flag on a disclosure?

A full disclosure, aye.

[mcscoty]

Originally Posted by Charlie Parker

is a fiscal fine something that would flag on a disclosure?

Yes it is a Fiscal Fine. Apparently a Fiscal Fine is not regarded as a Criminal Conviction, however it will still show up on an enhanched discosure.

There are thousands of social workers out there with minor crimes on their record, some for drugs, driving offences some for shoplifting.

The problem isnt that she has an offence on her record, its more to do with could she be expected to disclose an offence at her interview when she was not in receipt of it? She never declared anythhing at the interview because it is possible that it might have been dropped or anything. Okay very optimistic I agree, but it does happen. Can she be expected to prejudice herself on something she does not know the facts?

If no does she have a case against the uni?

[ladysavage]

If she was asked at her interview about criminal convictions she should've disclosed it anyway. Find out what the uni's policy is on this, because it can't be something they make up on the spot - advice from my other half, (manager at Disclosure)

[XMachina]

If you honestly think that it might be a personality issue that's the sticky wicket rather than your other half's wrongdoing then knowingly withholding information to the uni relating to that and their eligibility for the course is it not worth seeing about doing a similar course elsewhere?

[Warped]

How has the course been funded, beacuse there is no way the uni can keep that money.

[mcscoty]

Originally Posted by ladysavage

If she was asked at her interview about criminal convictions she should've disclosed it anyway. Find out what the uni's policy is on this, because it can't be something they make up on the spot - advice from my other half, (manager at Disclosure)

Hi LadySavage.

She does not have a criminal conviction, the Fiscal Fine is not a conviction, she has never been to court, this is the equivalent of a speeding ticket, if you accept the fine that is the end of the matter (aye right) blah blah.

If she had not recieved the Fiscal Fine till after the interview then how could she disclose it? Even if she did, what would have happend if the letter she got was that the shop had decided to not proceed with the charge....or she never received anything at all, would she not have been forced to prejudice herself on something she was unaware of the facts at the time.

Would appreciate your other halsf view on this please.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Warped

How has the course been funded, beacuse there is no way the uni can keep that money.

Its a SAAS funded course. I did wonder if keeping in her for 2 months then kicking her out was something to do with funds, not sure how this works, but am aware that bumps on seats is more important to a lot of Universities these days.

[mcscoty]

Originally Posted by XMachina

If you honestly think that it might be a personality issue that's the sticky wicket rather than your other half's wrongdoing then knowingly withholding information to the uni relating to that and their eligibility for the course is it not worth seeing about doing a similar course elsewhere?

Well yes it might be worth looking for another course next year, this year would be to late for her. Trouble is that a year out of her life wasted...she would be better of being jailed for a 4.99 book for her sons birthday that she tried to nick cause she was on the bru and could not afford food and the book.... madness I know, and so does she now. I only wish I had met her then, least that way I could have bought the book!!

The trouble is that I think she has been mislead and treated wrongly by the university, if they were not going to allow her entry, fair enough, but she should have been turned around at the door when she tried to enrol, not keep on a promise for 2 months then rejected after getting SSSC registration. So because of all that I want to at the very least get an apology from them.

[System_Star]

Being that the course is social work, if she had an interview and had to sign a declaration form, I would've erred on the side of caution and made the University aware at that time of the possible outcomes and not just hoped for the best. On top of that it would've shown honesty and good character to be upfront.

I don't think they can withdraw her on the terms of "personality issues" and there will be policies in place for this sort of thing.

On top of that, if she really thinks they are being over the top/harsh/unreasonable, would you really want to study in that faculty for 4 years?

[mcscoty]

Originally Posted by System_Star

Being that the course is social work, if she had an interview and had to sign a declaration form, I would've erred on the side of caution and made the University aware at that time of the possible outcomes and not just hoped for the best. On top of that it would've shown honesty and good character to be upfront.

I don't think they can withdraw her on the terms of "personality issues" and there will be policies in place for this sort of thing.

On top of that, if she really thinks they are being over the top/harsh/unreasonable, would you really want to study in that faculty for 4 years?

Well yes I suppose you have a reasonable point about making them aware of the possible outcome. Sadly it was her FE lecturer who told her not to disclose anything until it has been disposed off.

However if she erred on the side of caution and mentioned about the probable outcome, if it never happened would she be jujged on what was probable rather than on what has happened?

Fact is the Uni should have kicked her out on day one if they considered her to have done something wrong, not tell her it will be okay as long as she gets SSSC registration, then kick her out two months later. Regardless of what my girlfriend has done, and not disclosing it at the interview for a valid reason, surely what the uni did is completely out of order and possibly just as deceptive as what my girlfriend is being regarded as?

[System_Star]

Originally Posted by mcscoty

Well yes I suppose you have a reasonable point about making them aware of the possible outcome. Sadly it was her FE lecturer who told her not to disclose anything until it has been disposed off.

However if she erred on the side of caution and mentioned about the probable outcome, if it never happened would she be jujged on what was probable rather than on what has happened?

Fact is the Uni should have kicked her out on day one if they considered her to have done something wrong, not tell her it will be okay as long as she gets SSSC registration, then kick her out two months later. Regardless of what my girlfriend has done, and not disclosing it at the interview for a valid reason, surely what the uni did is completely out of order and possibly just as deceptive as what my girlfriend is being regarded as?

Well, unfortunatly thats what happens in interviews, you're judged. I'm doing nursing and I would expect the same to happen to me if I didn't disclose information that could appear on my disclosure at a later date, it looks dishonest and thats not really what they want when you are a undertaking a care based course.

And with regards to letting her stay on for 2 months before realising, it's probably just down to administration as you see alot of people through registration/enrolment who just deal with the paper work of getting you in and it's not until the faculty recieve all the disclosures (which take longer to come back during the start of Uni year due to the amount of courses requiring them) that it would've been flagged up.

The rest of what you are saying is "he said, she said" stuff, which anyone can deny or convienently forget about.

It is gutting, especially when you have your heart set on something or you miss out on a whole year when you could be getting ahead, but if she reapplies at least she will know all the facts this time around. It's unfortunate.

[mcscoty]

Originally Posted by System_Star

And with regards to letting her stay on for 2 months before realising, it's probably just down to administration as you see alot of people through registration/enrolment who just deal with the paper work of getting you in and it's not until the faculty recieve all the disclosures (which take longer to come back during the start of Uni year due to the amount of courses requiring them) that it would've been flagged up.

Well this has nothing to do with Discosure, that has not come back yet, the girlfriend had contacted them on Friday and they said it would be another 2 weeks for that to be done.

The University can't justfiy allowing her to stay for 2 months based on information that they had plenty of opportunity to make a decision on. The effectify blocked her chance of going onto another course, like an HND course she had been accepted onto but is to late now to get on it. Its not hard for the University to work this one out, the Programme Leader was told of the situation first, she should know her job and should have said not to come to University due to the circumstances. I would have no complaint then, however instead she said no come, turn up like any other student, as long as you get SSSC registration there will be no issue. I fail to see how that can be regarded as anything other than deceptive.