"Homeopathy doesn't work"

26th August 2005, 8:50am

So says The Lancet medical journal, anyway.

Reuters are reporting today that a study has proven Homeopathy does not work.

Quote:

"There was weak evidence for a specific effect of homeopathic remedies, but strong evidence for specific effects of conventional interventions," the study concluded.

"This finding is compatible with the notion that the clinical effects of homeopathy are placebo effects," it added after examining findings from 110 homeopathy trials and an equal number of conventional medical trials.

This coming with evidence that the UK's homeopathy market has increased by a third in the last 5 years, with spending at £32m in 2004.

Thoughts?

.Katie. · 26th August 2005, 8:52am

I don't know, i personally don't have much faith in it but i've seen pleanty of women who rely on it during pregnancy. I think it works if you want it to. if that makes sense

*the transfer* · 26th August 2005, 8:54am

well given the placebo effect is well established in other areas already, i'd say homeopathy could well exlpained by this. I haven't read the article (currently still having stupid computer issues.

I know quite a few people who swear by homeopathy, so i think it would well be a case of mind over matter - they believe the pills work and so they do.

i'll read the article later and give a proper reply then, but there are my initial thoughts

Mrs.Evil of Hesselink · 26th August 2005, 9:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by *the transfer*

well given the placebo effect is well established in other areas already, i'd say homeopathy could well exlpained by this. I haven't read the article (currently still having stupid computer issues.

That's what I thought.

So many scientific studies are flawed anyway, so who knows.

*Potatojunkie* · 26th August 2005, 9:34am

If homeopathy did work, then by now someone would have invented homeopathic alcohol for poor students.

Get cracking, scientists.

System_Star · 26th August 2005, 10:39am

As Rosie said, alot of it is to do with the placebo effect.

Some of the more well known herbal remedies ie. echinacea have shown evidence of activity, but not consitently throughout trials, so it is thrown out.

Alot of herbal remedies and stuff come from the Romans & the Egyptians etc.

Example of one is that herbal drug "Antistax".

Its used for your veins n stuff. Only reason why is myth has been passed down to believe it works on your blood only by the fact it is red and the plant is in the shape similar to that of the heart.

So alot of herbal stuff is total bull shit. But i dont knock the fact that i do think there are some things out there that do have some theraputic effect.

nevali · 26th August 2005, 10:42am

Homeopathic remedies != herbal remedies.

There's a HUGE difference.

Lots of companies who sell one sell the other, which confuses matter.

One particular defining facet of homeopathic remedies is that the active ingredient is diluted to the point that it's chemically undetectable, and hence no longer active.

Herbal stuff on the other hand is largely very very similar to "non-alternative" remedies, just produced differently. Same active ingredients, by and large.

**Ghostsuit** · 26th August 2005, 10:45am

What do drugs get made out of? I reckon some will work some won't. You can't tell me they tested ever herbal rem out there?

^^Edit the above posted just showed the confusion, I thought we were talking about herbal there.

Plus just because it's a placebo effect doesn't actually make it bad if it makes you better, a positive minds a damn good healer and if the homeopathy helps the mind then why not.

*Potatojunkie* · 26th August 2005, 10:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostsuit

What do drugs get made out of? I reckon some will work some won't. You can't tell me they tested ever herbal rem out there?

There's a good reason why you shouldn't go eating medicine at random, yes?

"Well, it might work. It might break your innards. Who knows? Have fun!"

nevali · 26th August 2005, 10:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostsuit

What do drugs get made out of? I reckon some will work some won't. You can't tell me they tested ever herbal remout there?

Plus jsut because it's a palcbo effectr doesn't actually make it bad if it makes you better, a positive minds a damn good healer and if the homeopathy helps the mind then why not.

Aye.

The placebo effect is about the only proveable benefit to homeopathic remedies, but fortunately there have been lots of studies with respect to the placebo effect. In that sense alone they're nae a bad thing.

However, this breaks down as soon as it clicks that the "remedy" you've been given is, quite literally, water.

[And, to make this absolutely clear, because it always gets misapplied: for this point I refer to homeopathic remedies, not herbal remedies]

System_Star · 26th August 2005, 10:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevali

One particular defining facet of homeopathic remedies is that the active ingredient is diluted to the point that it's chemically undetectable, and hence no longer active.

Herbal stuff on the other hand is largely very very similar to "non-alternative" remedies, just produced differently. Same active ingredients, by and large.

Homeopathic is actually diluted by powers as it is the belief that it actually becomes more powerful.

Some orthodox medicines are derived from what first started out as alternative, but have been processed and refined so they are far more potent and controlled. So its not usually sold as an herbal medicine anymore.

Ie. Chinchoa bark was found to help malaria etc by chewing it. Turns out theactive ingredient was quinine sulphate, which is now in the dispensary as an orthodox medicine rendering the selling of chinchoa bark pointless.

But these examples are few and far between. The majority of drugs come from chemical synthesis and are NOT avaliable as a herbal preparation.

They all come under the umbrella of alternative. And as has been said are no consistent in tests to show they have theraputic effects and are therefore thrown out.

But the placebo effect is very great, which i believe in as being a good thing, especially for terminally ill patients etc.

**Ghostsuit** · 26th August 2005, 10:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatojunkie

There's a good reason why you shouldn't go eating medicine at random, yes?

"Well, it might work. It might break your innards. Who knows? Have fun!"

Did I say eat medicine at random?

You'd take the homeopathic "cure" for that illness. Just the same as you'd take the Science "cure" for that illness.

As for the breaking your innards it's a damn fine point have you read the side effects most medicine "might" give you?

Oh and I'm not for or against homeopathy, I just think it has it's place and if someones tried the medical root and it doesn't work them maybe trying it won't be a bad idea.

nevali · 26th August 2005, 11:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Star

Homeopathic is actually diluted by powers as it is the belief that it actually becomes more powerful.

Indeed. Unfortunately (for proponents of homeopathic remedies who claim benefits beyond the placebo effect), our current scientific theories don't allow homeopathy to work, because there aren't actually enough atoms in the universe.

Plausibly, the entire fields of physics and chemistry could be wrong, but there have been many studies of homeopathy trying to demonstrate a clear clinical effect (besides the placebo effect), and none have managed to. No homeopathic expert has ever been able to explain how homeopathic remedies work in terms of existing scientific theory. Though the word 'quantum' has cropped up a lot, in a hand-wavey-I-don't-really-know-anything-about-quantum-chemistry way.

As things stand, homeopathy, beyond the placebo effect, is a matter of faith. There's very little difference between it and believing that God will heal you -- and plenty of people have believed in that in the past, and will continue to do so.

If it helps them, so be it.

My only concern is that people who don't realise the lack of scientific evidence will assume it's all proven ("it's on sale, so it must be" -- of course it's on sale, it's water) and be conned.

But then, that breaks the placebo effect. Ho hum.

Once again, no clear right answer.

I'll sell you a rock which wards off tigers, though, if you want.

System_Star · 26th August 2005, 11:03am

Or how about some bear fur? It'll make you strong

*Potatojunkie* · 26th August 2005, 11:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostsuit

As for the breaking your innards it's a damn fine point have you read the side effects most medicine "might" give you?

I was talking about herbal remedies, here. Specifically the comment "You can't tell me they tested ever herbal remout there?"

If you're going to go taking untested herbal remedies, then you are eating medicine at random. Actual medicines have labels on that tell you what side effects to expect, what other things you shouldn't mix with that medicine, what dosage you should be taking, and so forth.

I blame Resident Evil for all of this.